Minutes for Vision And Goals Working Group 2/9/12

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Minutes for V&G Working Group 2/9/12


Facilitator: Jean – Stack: – Itzhak – Timekeeper: We – Minutes: – Michael K.


Attendees: Jean, Sati, We, Rich W., Itzhak, Joanne, Sumumba, Ray, Beebe, Tom, Michael K.


Quorum was reached at 5:50PM. Meeting then proceeded.


Two Agenda items were decided upon:


  1. Process: Michael proposes that to keep disrupters or worse from hijacking our open meetings, newcomers to the group, can propose, speak but NOT vote/consent to anything till they have attended 3 meetings.
  2. Keep on working to work through different variations of the Vision Statement.


Michael makes his proposal.


Lisa said that the problem is that, we as a working group, do not use the process – if we did really use it consistently things would be smoother.


Itzhak: Thinks that people come with different ideas to break up the process. They do not adhere to the GA approved process.


Jean: If there is a problem with process in our working group, you should all go to facilitation and get the training necessary to run a proper meeting.


Sumumba: Expands on the “coup” that happened at Wednesday’s meeting (2/8) It’s essentially an egotistical counter-revolutionary group because it didn’t respect our principles of inclusion. The movement was originally begun on anarchistic principles, which calls for consensus and horizontal democracy. Whether we agree completely with it, these are the current rules. Whether their document had merit or not, wasn’t the issue. They did not show RESPECT for the process.


Sati: The reason for the blowup, in my opinion, was that two individuals from our group couldn’t control their emotions and it could have been handled in a calmer, more even-handed way.


Lisa: Precisely my point about process. If it was in place, there would have been no blow up.


We: I dismiss the idea that this was a coup. These people had passion for their idea and just wanted to get something accomplished.


After further discussion we consent to voting on two possible decisions.


  1. No attendance qualifications for voting/consent privileges but process must be adhered to.
  2.  Voting/consent privileges should not be given till someone attends (3) meetings.


Vote was taken for consensus resulting in a 4-4 tie.  Motion tabled to Sunday for further discussion.


We then started to discuss the many iterations of the vision statement but before we could get into the details the clock ran out. The facilitator needed to go to the GA….and in addition, the GA had no proper facilitator…so Rich W. volunteered to facilitate.


Meeting adjourned: 7:30PM


Please note: Due to a major disturbance at the 2/8 meeting there was no official meeting of the V&G working group, however, the minutes of the meeting are posted in docs.

7 Responses to “Minutes for Vision And Goals Working Group 2/9/12”

  1. Michael Korn

    Hey Lisa,

    This is probably why I and most others don’t like to do “minutes.” If I misinterpreted what you said please correct it, preferably in one sentence…..and I’ll edit the post. Sorry….old man…earwax..etc.

  2. jack siler

    I don’t know what Lisa said, but I’ll say it. There is a flaw in the process to the extent that simple subjects like do we spend money on X or Y; do we occupy Times Square or City Hall, in other words Yes or No subjects are perfectly dealable with as the system is. What the system does poorly AS IT IS SET NOW with the blocks and 90% blockbreak is complex subjects where the me-me egos, axe grinders, opposing ideologies, and the crazy fringe can not only be heard – as they should be – but can destroy the system, retard the entire OWS movement, and throw everything into chaos.

    My personal belief and that of numerous others is that reasonable people will slowly back off and back out, leaving the whole NY movement to wither. I really have the feeling I’m re-living the French “revolution” of May 1968. When the movement was squelched by the CRS (like an anti-riot branch of the army that the establishment controlled) the resulting political, cultural, and social damage never healed, not even today, 40+ years later.

    One of the prime tenets of evolution theory is that Flexibility is probably the keystone to survival. It seems to me that
    OWS-NY is confronting that situation and if dogma rules, we will wither. OWS , whatever ideational branch one follows, seems brighter than to falter because dogma has already become rigidity in 5 months. OWS-NY sorely needs to structure in some flexibility. It took a certain church 2000 years to have that kind of mental rigor mortis set in. But then, we do live in an age of speed!

  3. Dallas

    [broken record]

    Don’t ask permission, ask forgiveness

    [/broken record]

    For stuff that doesn’t necessitate funds or the use of OWS resources or our name, I suspect doing “proof of concept” and just running with the idea for a couple of weeks in order to have tangible achievements and progress to point to before asking the GA for anything would remedy the issue of it being hard to get 90% modified consensus on complex proposals.

  4. Lisa Rubenstein

    Lisa said that the problem is that, we as a working group, do not use the process – if we did really use it consistently things would be smoother. – something to that effect – then what a I say right after, in the minutes, makes sense.
    See you tomorrow.

  5. Lisa Rubenstein

    I just realized I was meant to edit it, not just comment on it. Done.
    @Michael – I think, in the interest of transparency, that the minutes – I think they were called in – from 2/8/12 should be made available.

  6. Lisa Rubenstein

    My bad again – the minutes of the 2/8/12 minutes are still up in docs – so that last statement should be taken out. I’m on it.