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6:12 meetings starts

Jay and Josh: volunteer to co-facilitate


Jay: could we introduce ourselves?  Name, organization


Jane: Immigrant Workers justice

Derrick: Housing subgroup, National resident engagement group, united coalition to save public housing

Alf: housing, first demands meeting

Craig: long time working group members.
Peter: demands member

Leah: demands

Eric: Go where I can

Michael: I have a lot of demands

Vivek: demands

Brighty: first time

Lily: first time


Adam: NY S??
Greg: security and labor rights

Dr. Eric, also member of meditation group

Lee: Demands

Eric: member of LOC,

Katie: Health care NOW, HC for 99%

Ellen: tide is turning on OWS webpage, environmental solidarity

Teresa: I’m here for every group

Susan: demands

Jake: demand, I work with a radical publishing house

Kevin: Documentary film maker

Nica; school nurse, from Philly




Jay: Is everyone clear about hand signals.
Josh: Temperature checks, point of information (not debate); speaking to long, point of process, stack- how you get to speak (order), go to Leah, block, clarifying question.

Eric: this means speak up.

Jay: Next we take suggestions for agenda.

Eric L: Tuesday forum on JFA, also I want to raise possibility the date to go back to GA, because Saturday is the day for reoccupation, very difficult to do.

Jake: Recap of solutions cluster, and create a subgroup

Jay: Can this be a report back

Lee: At the end of the last meeting we discussed whether this group working on – what’s the agenda or should we represent what 99% of the country would like.

Derrick: I had wanted to report back on the East NY save our homes. Also a request for a housing subgroup.

Jay: anyone else:

Dr. Eric: I’d like to distribute the demands passed by our group, so you know what page we’re on.

Greg: a little on the tax group.  Just a report back

Eric L: Labor Outreach.

Jay: Any other new items.

Ellen: I wanted to speak about including the earth message more in the demands, and threat of fracking up state.

Evelyn: a Civil Rights court.

Brighty: Rolling your money off wall st.

Jay: We have 9 items.  Some can be report backs.

Can solutions cluster be in report backs?  The tax group- a report back?  Labor outreach report back. Derrick is also a report back.

There are new items: 1) discuss Tuesday forum JFA and move the GA to Sunday. Temp check (they are linked).  2) Lee’s discussion about whether we represent what we want or the 99%.  (negative temperature check) 3) Earth/environmental demands 4) civil rights court 5) removing our money from Wall Street.  Should we have a new ideas segment of the meeting?  We’ve got a number of report backs and three substantive items.


Michael: First time at this meeting.  Have you already settled on some demands?

[passed on some literature].

Josh: We should have a general discussion on demands?

Jay: We have 4 report backs. How much time.  We’ll do 10 minutes total on report back, including Josh’s general report.  10-15.

This is a pretty meaty item, Tuesday’s JFA forum and changing the day of the GA from Saturday-Sunday?  How much time.

Eric L: 20 minutes

Jay: Moving earth

Ellen: 10-15

Jay: Grab bag of various issue: Civil rights: 10-15?

First report back: Josh brings us up to date on the WG.

Josh: I fully encourage people to jump in.  There are 5 demands: 1) Jobs for all, 2) Getting money out of politics, 3) ending corporate personhood, 4) economic security, 5) labor and human rights. Thos are the five.  Would the subgroups like to describe?

Eric L: The JFA will discussed at the forum.  Has endorsement from LOC, Occupy Harlem, Occupy Jobs, En Espanol, Labor Outreach [reads demand].

Greg: Economic security is a social security net demand, increase social security (reads the demand).

Jake: None of our demands that have been consensed in this group have been passed by the GA.  We’re working on getting further support.

Jay: JFA was the first demand, we’ve gone to the GA.  We’ll like a vote at the end next demand.

Ellen: Can we change to green jobs?

Jay: We’ll talk about the environmental component.

Itzak: Ending corporate personhood.  It’s a short resolution.  OWS endorses a constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood.

Shanti: Regarding the wording, what will it take to introduce language to change, I can be that personhood.

Jay: We’ll talk about it when we discuss JFA.

Lee: This demand is get $ out of politics: [reads demand].

Greg: rights

Eric L: abolition of all laws against organizing, assembly, and strike, bans all detention without charge and trial, and demands release of all held this way, prosecution of torture and rendition.  Repeal all discrimination and legalization of all who live here.

Jay: Let’s get through the rest of report back. Solutions cluster

Jake: Something quite important happened.  Call out for solutions cluster.  We had representatives form 10 other groups.  Groups seeking to make demands, goals, obviously a lot are working on areas that we’ve been working on.  We’re going to circulate minutes, documents, and I ask you to be part of the process to learn which groups we share a lot of with, similar issues.  The next solution cluster is here on 5-6 PM.

Greg: We got together for the first time – information on tax justice.  There is a Tobin tax group.  It seems that two groups interested in tax groups should get together.

Craig: There is going to be an email list for the taxation demands subgroup.  I am getting too much email as it is.  I’m going to start the email list when I get home.  The people who have indicated an interests.  Anyone else, catch up before I leave.

Brighty: What’s the purpose?

Craig: The idea is to set a specific amount as to how much we want to raise the income of the 1%, and maybe some incentives to move jobs in the US in the interest of creating new jobs.  When we say taxation we mean income tax.

Eric L: Labor outreach- we had a discussion with some representatives from the TWU.  They are opening contract negotiations.  They are having a march on Thursday at 4 PM, from Broadway, 2 Broadway offices, after their rally, they will march to Liberty plaza.  They will have a speak out on Jobs.  A rank and file general assembly.  We’ve been invited to present the JFA demand as part of the speak out.  That will occur 6:30.  it would be really good, a lot of important events.  Hopefully 100s, maybe 1000, transit workers to discuss jobs.  Talk to me afterwards.

Derrick: Housing: not a great deal to report.  Our meeting was shrunk by the solutions cluster.  We were supposed to meet in between.  I was to report to what happened last Tuesday.  Save our Homes occupy East New York.  Some people became part of an evictions group.  There was a fellow called Quincy who was going to be foreclosed on that same day.  Some people were a watch to prevent the foreclosure.  I am sad to report that Quincy lost his home.  The marshals were supposed to come in.  The NYPD were there.  The police broke down his door.  One of the occupy people were hit in the head by the door.  The police wouldn’t let him go to the hospital but they arrested him.  I don’t know if anyone intervened. I also want to report that those members who are subgroup members on Housing.  We have to meet.  Urgent.  Foreclosures are important but it is not the only issue.  We are dealing with subsidized housing.  It is in the name of RAD, they are going to be put all subsidized housing under the Banks.  Bank of America, etc.  There will be no safety net.  We have to deal with renters question, which has not been dealt with the media.  Already Obama signed RAD two weeks ago.  Rad is a demonstration program.  We may work to make NYCHA disqualified.

Jay: We finished report backs.

Greg: People from health care for 99% are here, we plan to reach out to you on a universal health create demand.

Xxx: we just had a meeting.  Health care for the 99%.  And we are working on our statement, so we will come to this group with the statement.  We want a single payer system.  Some people don’t want to use single payer. We want this to be a demand.

Jay: first new item: jobs for all forum Tuesday, move to GA to Sunday.  Raise your hand, Leah will take your name down.  We have 20 minutes dedicated.

Eric: A report.  We have 6 speakers in addition to our group.  We have Liliana Gomez from OWS in Espanol.  Larry Adams, vice chair from People’s Organization for Progress.  Cindy Klum labor Outreach, Connie Kaplan from unemployed, and someone from Occupied Jobs.  Danielle from Occupy Harlem.  Two things about speakers.  Who will represent our group.  I nominate myself.  We should consider other people too.  We should discuss time limits.  I suggest 5 minutes for panel presentation. 35 minutes, so we’ll have 90 minutes for general discussion.  People should also keep in mind that WBAI will only broadcast first hour.  We need to discuss last minute publicity.  We want as many people to come.  Room will hold 130.  How do we get this word out?  Especially to other groups.  We should emphasize that even though we’re discussing JFA, once we open up, it’s open to any demand, pro JFA, in favor or other demands.  This is really important.  I hope everyone will come.  It’s important that this is our icebreaker.  It’s our first public media event.  We will put it on YouTube.  We couldn’t arrange for live stream.  We hope people will publicize where it is.  Michael has great publicity, maybe he’ll put it in his website.  It’s really important that we get people to come, we publicize to other groups, and we publicized the YouTube discussion afterwards.  So people who did not attend can look at it.  We see it as an intermediate step to going to GA.  We should discuss forum and then change of day.

Itzak: Who moderates and enforces timeliness.

Eric L: We need a volunteer to help with moderation.  This is speak out forum.  We’re not making any forum.  We’re not using consensus rules.  We could use a good hand at the moderator table.

Josh: Kind of question and suggestion- wording when it starts.  I’m just making a suggestion.  The last stretch of publicity.  Supporting the idea that it’s not a final demand.  Because of the solutions cluster.  Letting it be known that it’s open for adaptability and inclusion, which may influence when it’s taken.

Eric L: The forum publicity doesn’t discuss.

Josh; When you start the forum, say it’s a work in process.

Eric L: I do want to say as a point of information, I think it’s important that the demands group has consensed in other demands.  I will say in my presentation that we have consensed to other demands.

Derrick: I want to clarify- what time and what day.  I’m still not clear.

Eric L. If anyone has not seen this flyer.

Derrick: Do we not have a meeting/
Greg: pass

Lee: two things: I’m concerned to the response about the last question.  This demand has not been ratified by the GA there is a lot of hostility. If we don’t discuss that this is just for the subgroup says, it will be misrepresent.  If the media wants to pick it up.  I don’t understand why this demand is going, except to say this is just the group’s demand.  This is my second point- are we representing what this select group is in favor of, a far left group, or something that the 99% will get behind.  Point is, since we didn’t follow through on the discussion tabled last time, what will this movement effect by seeming far-left?  When you go to WBAI, will we know lose the 99%?

Jay: We’ve got, clarify so we don’t focus on the Tuesday forum.

Craig: there is no hostility to this demand in the GA, just hostility on demands in general.

Derrick: We discussed this at some length at our last meeting.  It wasn’t that it was tabled, but it my report back that was tabled.

Lee: Point of information.

Jay: In respect to the forum.  Outreach.  We’ve gotta have other people aware of the event.  I’m going to TWU rally on Thursday with flyer about the GA.  Which is all connected.  Another point of information on this demand.  This has been fully vetted.  We have done, we had a GA that received feedback from a broad swaths (of the movement).  If we change language, it will take a lot of work. The point of the GA is that’s where you can change it.

Ellen: I hear you that there is an established process to get things change.  Part of me that’s a little frustrating of sustainability isn’t part of the natural language.  A problem with this country is jobs at all costs.  Especially if jobs poison workers, because they are closer to the source.  If I was saying “jobs of minimum wage of 15 dollars” that’s contentious.  But I couldn’t imagine people in OWS not agreeing with sustainable and humane jobs.  Can we go to the GA right now and see if it could pass?

Shanti: I am not trying to create a burden?  What will it take to do it?  I know it’s tedious.  That’s what we’re here for.  We will get it done.  How do you want it done.  I’ll do it.

Jake: Couple of things.  First of all, asking for a major government works program isn’t a far left demand.  What we need to do is build bridges at the rest of the movement so we can take it to other occupations.  We’re done that with other working groups.  The best way to change the wording at the GA present as a friendly debate.  I guess what these guys are saying is that they’ve done their work.  At the GA you could recommend it.

Eric: I think in the interest of the timeliness…

Jake: Can I say one more thing:

Eric: Is it agreeable to represent the group at the forum.  Is there anyone else?

Josh: we are putting up to vote.  We can put up friendly amendments.  Then we move to a temp check.

Susan: Point of process

Eric: Does anyone else want to nominate themselves

Josh: Friendly Amendment: Totally fine: I would like some reassurance that this is a work in process.  Not representative of OWS, reassure the public.

Eric L: I think it’s as clear as it should be?

Jake: The question that we’re all asking you – will you say at the beginning of the forum- that this is a work in progress that may get changed at the general assembly.

Jay: vote on Eric?

Josh: blocks?

Jay: temp check: (Consensus)

Eric will be our representative.

The other issue is 5 minutes.  Be total of thirty five minutes- Temp check (positive).

Eric: Anyone willing to moderate?  We can twist someone’s arm that isn’t here.

Can I ask who’s coming on Tuesday?  Try to get others to come.

Craig: As for the idea the JFA appeal to 99%, no one expects 99% of the population to support.

Itzak: Can I speak?

Jay: Only a point of information.

Craig: Lee’s point that JFA will not appeal to the 99%, I’ll respond to say that we don’t literally expect everything we do to have 99% of the population.  We represent 99% interests, not opinions.    We will probably max out at 65%.

Derrick: Two things I want to bring out: We have to be cognizant of certain things as a democratic body.  Eric if you’re going to represent us, you have to say this is a work in progress, lest we get in the same fight with the GA as before.  We have to leave room for friendly amendment.  We should have a friendly amendment.  We could do it tonight.  I don’t think it would destroy the fabric of the document.  We just started solutions cluster.

Jay: We have already voted for the demand.  We have already decided to go the GA this weekend.  We would have to go back to all the other groups.  That we negate the decision.

Derrick: A friendly amendment would not change it.

Eric L: Are we now moving on the discussion of timing of the GA?

Ellen: is this still about Jobs Forum.  Think what you’re saying, it’s just like adding, add sustainable before jobs, not to restructure the event or make it focus only on solar. I was explaining, I’ll go myself.

Jay: This is not immune from change.  The appropriate venue is the GA

Jake: We could have a temp check about this group as a friendly amendment and take to it GA

Ellen: environmental and green jobs. Put it before jobs.

Greg: as a friendly amendment at the GA.
Jake Would we decide this at the GA.

Jay: how do people feel about this.  (Positive).

Lee: Is there a space on the panel for the negative response.

Eric. L: No, not in the panel.

Jay: 2/3 of the forum is on open participation.  Anyone can say they are for or against the demand.

Josh: point of information.

Itzak: Will there be time limits from people who speak from the floor?

Jay: At the last meeting we gave people 2 minutes

Do we want 2-3 minutes?
Jay: 2 minutes or 5 minutes (clearly 2 minute limits)

Josh; I think we should move to the second half, moving to Sunday.

Eric: The motivation to go back to the GA on Saturday December 17.  Since then the situation has changed.  On December 17, the DA group has announced a reoccupy event in lower Manhattan.  Not an attempt to take Liberty Square.  From past experience, when there’ a lot of confrontation with police, not a GA.  To make this a safe proposition, I propose we move to Sunday.  This is not a big political decision.  We said the 17th, we’re moving to prevent a conflict.  The GA following a mobilization would more likely be larger and more representative.

If we don’t agree, I’ll go on the 17th.

Derrick: What you’re saying is good to not have on the 17th for these reason.  I still don’t think we’re ready.  I’m really weary of the GA and the way we treated us the first time.  This is just a suggestion.  The way the GA treated us in the past.

Greg: point of information, when this was presented in break out, it was actually quite popular.

Jay: point of information another reason why Eric chose December 18th, the immigrants right march will end at Zucotti.  Many of the immigrants are interested in joining for our GA.

Lee: There is a movement building meeting 2:30-7.  They are sponsoring a meeting at Pace University.  There objective is to bring together a wide swath to talk about vision and process, and talk about how to better work today.  That might conflict with people who might want to be at the meeting.

Evelyn: I would like to make to informed decisions.

Eric: The major reason- the OWS direct action group- has decided that on Saturday Dec. 17 there will be major mobilization to occupy and put up tents in another location.  Since this is not a the present time consented to by the owners of the plot, there is likely to be a large scale confrontation by the police.  That makes GA difficult.  The only reason to move to avoid the possibility that we’ll propose to a GA that won’t occur.

Greg: Let me see- we have a meeting of this group between now and next Sunday, because Tuesday is the forum and Sunday is the GA.  One thing to think about, who will go to facilitation?  Whoever is up there in front is involved in who will be accepting friendly amendment.  Can other endorsing group be there on Sunday?  Not much time to discuss friendly amendments in coalition with other groups.  But there are gray areas.

Eric L: I think we decided to go to GA on Sunday we have to have a meeting specifically how we do that between now and Sunday.  Whether it’s coordination with Tuesday forum of another day.

Susan: Can the JFA subgroup meet to do the GA?

Josh: First vote on waiting longer/delay beyond 17/18th.

Jay: if that is brought up we need to have discussion about the disadvantages of not going this weekend.

Josh: Let’s do a temperature on voting to move GA to a later date.  Results are mixed.

Then let’s vote on moving to 18th.  Temp check (positive).  Blocks (no).  Consensus: yeas.

Jay: Who plans, we’re not just a talk shop.  If we’re going to go Sunday, the GA is more important.  Who is going to the GA?

Josh: The solutions cluster is great place to bring more people.  Meets Sunday 5-6 here.

Evelyn: What is the point of occupying parks?  We should go for stability.  The weather is not permitting.

Jay: Direct Action working group had decided to take a space . Not us.

Eric L: Clarifying question.  I want the group to be clear- are we delegating the JFA subgroup to make preparations for going back to the GA (consensus).

Anyone who wants to do that, meet with me after the meeting so we can consens on this.

Jay: I would add on doing outreach in general over the next week.

Jay: Next item.  We have 20 minutes.  The issues is on integrating environmental  concerns on the demand.

Ellen: I’m sorry about getting sidetracked on jobs.  I guess the reason I wanted to bring this up, when I bring this about OWS message, it’s like 80-90% about economic justice with tiny tension about environment.  I don’t think these issues are at odds.  They are really the same thing.  It’s the same thing greed destroying the earth and our wealth.  I’d like it to be spoken about more in the language of occupation.  We’re fighting these chemicals from occupying our bodies.  Our lungs.  The really danger in NY is gas drilling, the fracking, if you want to be on email lists.  The environmental solidarity group will be formulating to bring a document to the general assembly- the anti-fracking movement which is so local.  Expand to environment specific, and economic specific, other things can be as simple as adding one word- sustainable jobs, sustainable and humane jobs.  Anything we could talk about- good to add more on environment.  NY is my home.  I’m going back to SF.

Greg: pass
Eric: OK, I think that when we started talking about demands, we said there’d be 6 baskets.  We didn’t have a subgroup, I thought this was a bad thing. We need a subgroup that works with the environmental working group.  I have a personal interest in this because I am a clean energy researcher.  That’s why I do for a living.  If our process works, we will have a clean source of energy.  There are a lot of issues.  There are local and global issues.  All of which come from the same come global octopus parasite that we are fighting.  We should have a subgroup create a demand on protecting the environment against capitalism.

Shanit: I agree with both Ellen and Eric.  I believe the reason why the wording is not here, I might add, every time we heard the word environmental and sustainable.  That is not limited to green jobs.  That’s why if everyone wants to understand what they are voting for, a specific group on the environment.  My group hasn’t been present here.  I wasn’t here when your group was working on it.  I believe that environmental sustainability should have been here and it hasn’t been here before.

Eric: We have to form it.

Derrick: Isn’t it obvious.  We have to add environment to our demand.  We have to leave room to expand our demand.

Jake: we’ve been asked a few thing.  1) bear environment in mind in all our demands.  This is a fundamental concern.  2) we really need to move forward on your document that you want to present to the GA and we will support you.  We should have a environmental subgroup.  Call for a moratorium on fracking, oil and gas exploration.  We should formulate wording that your group and our group can be interested in.

Itzak: We should have an clear environmental demand.  Are we going to have run every demand by the nonviolent litmus test?  Are we going to meet with feminist, antiracist. Let’s not get hung up with throwing with environment in everything.  We should have a statement.  Once we statement.  We’re going.

Jay: These were new ideas.  Two of them was Civil Rights court proposal and removing money from wall street.

Josh: stack on civil right discussion.

Evelyn: the reason I am proposing a civil rights court is because there are so many missing links between law and rights.  We are, me personally, are on the other end of justice.  Police are so rampant.  We don’t have a court to address these issues.  Because of these issues, a judge had allowed , it was online.  She was the one that allowed people to have a class action law suit against the NYPD.  I believe they are above the law.  We don’t have any justice.  There are…. against immigrants too.  I think having that judge that deserves that court,… she’s the only one been mentioned.  I would like this to be universal jurisdiction.  When you have evidence, but the police officer grabbed my iPad and broke my digital recorder.  The only evidence is the store video footage.  We have a bank for evidence building.  I’m still fighting with the system to have this.  I would have been… justice would have been accessible to everyone.  Judge Shia Schiding?  500 Pearl (?) Southern District. I would like her to initiate a civil rights court.

Josh: After the meeting, maybe meet with her afterwards.

Jay: removing money from Wall St.

Brighty: My partner and I were trying to figure out how to help and the original basis of occupy wall street.  If you give me a minute.  If you think about whether you retirement funds are.  Those moneys are probably with Meryl Lynch, Fidelity. These companies are stock held, they are the 1%.  They were bailed out, TARP companies.  I promise in a bumper sticker way, enroll your 401K off wall Street.  There are stock and mutual companies.  Stock companies reply to stockholders.  There first responsibility is to stockholders.  After that policy holders or employees.  Mutual companies.  You invest your money.  Where you choose your money.  When you pull it out and pull it in a different institution, you don’t pay tax and you’re not penalize.  If you unemployed… my suggestion is to take your money will be wherever you choose, they can be, you can get a group of people together in corporate America or a retirement plan.  You say that hits group of people wants to allocate your money in certain funds.  Or say we’ll fund companies working in this way, XYZ.  Whatever it is that you want to go towards.  So if you reallocate that money, and put it in to your institutions, that aren’t just paying Wall St. Organizations and fund organizations you want to support.  When you moved your money to small and coop banks, Bank of America.

Jake: Who owns mutual funds?

Brighty: By the policy holders?

Jake: Are mutual funds privately owned

Brighty: They are privately held by collective, but you can choose which funds.

Jake: They are privately owned with profit incentives.

Josh: Do we want to wrap up?
Brighty: How can help?

Jay: You can form a subgroup- yahoogroupsOWS.  See if others are interested in the demand and come with a more formal proposal.

Ellen: Do you work with Calpers?  They don’t invest in negative?

Brighty: that’s in the eyes of the beholder.

Josh: when is the next meeting?

Susan: I propose 12/20 as the next meeting?  Temp check (positive).

Eric: Plan the GA meet now (JFA subgroup).

Lee: I mentioned movement building meeting.  2:30-7.  This Tuesday in Atrium, they are having a meeting to set up process for Tuesday at 12, here.

Jay: any more announcements?

Josh: I’ll email out the environmental group.

Jay: Yahoogroups.com.


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