Visions and Goals Listening Session

Posted by & filed under Assemblies, Past Proposals.

Vision & Goals requests about 20 minutes on the agenda for a listening session.

18 Responses to “Visions and Goals Listening Session”

  1. Chithra KarunaKaran

    Hi Alia,
    My sense is no OWS group can proceed fruitfully, on the basis of **lack of inclusiveness and ***lack of divergent.viewpoints and perspectives**

    I stopped attending the V&G WG after 3 attendances. Many others have also stopped attending these WG meetings, not only V&G but some other WGs as well. This should be a matter of concern to ALL of us involved in OWS.

    1. I continue to have concerns about the ***processes*** of ***inclusiveness***, which I have found seriously lacking in the V&G WG.
    2. the ***content*** of the current draft regardless of its claim of being ‘crowd sourced, showed serious flaws at the last GA, when the draft was once again tabled for lack of suggested content.
    It certainly does not speak to me or to numerous persons i know who have dropped out or become frustrated with both process and content.

    In my view the ***4-month old problems*** facing the V&G group can be compared with the transparency and inclusiveness problems facing the Finance/Accounting group at which Janet Wilson was pretty much shutdown. Should we in GA shoot the messenger instead of listening to the message and including the speaker and the message?

    I have repeatedly stated that many versions of Vision can and may be allowed to flourish for WE are many and diverse and can be included.

    I don’t think this group pays attention and it engages in internal blocking (therefore censorship).
    The group is ‘circling’ the wagons’ and has become closed.

    I don’t expect that my concerns will be heard by this group. But I am continuing to post my concerns. and express them in GA, which I have attended and spent a lot of time ***listening*** since October 1.

    The proper place for many versions of vision to be accepted and presented is the V&G WG, so I do not need Patrick especially, to keep insisting that these other versions must be advanced independently. This is why we have WGs in the first place, NOT to exclude people and censor their efforts.


  2. sumumba

    and trying to commandeer meetings, making threats, continual blocks and telling folks to go ‘f**k themselves’ at meetings is NOT Movement Building, that’s one,,,and again TWO is the public at large already feels that OWS does NOT have a direction nor does it know what we stand for…to offer them MANY different and competing ‘visions’ will only DEEPEN that belief. AND going on the Vision and Goals website claiming to be a ‘member’ and then altering documents without anyone’s consent, negating the 4 months of work and hundreds of people who have put their input into the document to only produce an alternative document is highly DISRESPECTFUL of the people who have contributed to its creation.


  3. Chithra KarunaKaran

    Hi again Alia (I am directing this comment to YOUR attention)
    The response posted above illustrates exactly the problem that the V&G WG has brought upon itself. Some members do not operate under the ideals of divergence, dissent, openness, transparency, respect.

    I have never had a face to face direct interaction with this individual who has replied to my sincere concern. He was not at any of the 3 meetings I attended. of the V&G WG, Does he know me at all? Yet the individual makes here the most blatant, unfounded accusations. This is an ad hominem attack that he has continued for weeks( and I have resisted, as I must) right on this website, though I never initiated any comment to him, except once to praise his quote on the Cree.

    That was my point about the V&G WG dynamic — shoot the messenger, instead of welcoming both the messenger and the messenger. We saw this at last Sat night GA — the “circle the wagons approach”. That’s Whiteness (unequal supremacist power) in action.
    This individual to my mind sadly represents what MalcolmX analyzed as ‘the gatekeeper” , a person self-recruited into Whiteness, to keep out persons genuinely involved in struggle. Need i say more? It’s a sad case.

    You Alia, may indeed have started a listening thread. I appreciate that, even though it may be TLTL — Too Little Too Late.

    But look at the response of your WG member? Does that look to you like “listening”? Wow. Dissent is dissed! To me. that is not in the best interests of 99% democracy.

    I’m a public university professor who has been involved in democracy movements in many parts of the world. I was raised in the world’s largest democracy, by parents who were Gandhians. We can endure anything, including the petty humiliation illustrated here.

  4. sumumba

    Gandhi was a racist while in south africa and came from the 1% of his own society…so u coming from that ‘family o ‘Gandhians’ says alot..but u can ‘dissent’ all u want…but maybe u trying to take over meetings threatening and disrespecting folks in the process is a bit more than ‘dissent’


    • Urbaned

      from an objective point of view, there is something very strange going on here. Sumumba, I have not seen you become emotionally upset – ever! From afar, you both seem like reasonable people. Please, take a deep breath and get down to the issues. Is it something about ethical democracy that doesn’t work for you Sumumba? You seem to have gotten your buttons pushed.

      Once again, I was not there, so, this is merely an observation.

  5. sumumba

    well what i discussed above is very much the truth…and we can DOCUMENT it through emails, and eyewitnesses….this individual has a NEGATIVE rating on this site for a reason….Urbaned we’ll talk…but dont believe the hype my sista..

  6. Urbaned

    Check out her writings and see whether they’re in line with OWS: I think so. Not everyone has a “cool” personality, and many people who have negative ratings improve them after presenting themselves a little better. I am not saying that I would agree with everything Chithra would propose. I just think you are being hard on her. For example, why didn’t you scream at NotShazz for his hiney picture? It seems to me Chithra can probably add a bit more to the movement than him.

  7. sumumba

    i did speak up about ‘steve’s’ or NOT ‘steve’s’ azz pic..i didnt see ‘notshazz’s’ thats one thing another is again…if u ask SEVERAL members of our group and members of tech ops..u will see its not just me who has a issue (not with her writings per say) but her general lack of social skills, arrogance, calling others names, threats and misrepresenting herself… many of us out here on the streets doing the work all over the city (not just around the park) have never heard of or seen this woman at actions, or doing outreach yet its her ‘vision’ that speaks for ALL of ows? huh?

  8. Lisa Rubenstein

    @Urbaned Did you find the proposal to be respectful of us, as a community, and in line with OWS Principles of Solidarity?

    • Urbaned

      I believe I read her ideas and thought they were OK. But, the stream here is about her sense of exclusiveness of the process. I can’t seem to find the link to Chithras original proposal.

      And, let’s keep things in perspective. There were people who attended meetings for months and were violent. They were given the opportunity to be heard. This lady has a vision of Democracy, and doesn’t seem to be forcing it down anyone’s throat. Maybe her style needs work, but her voice should be heard. Once again, I’m not defending her. I would be saying this about anyone that seems to be attacked here.

      I also did, finally, begin to understand the importance of listening to Nan. But, I think this might even be more important.

      • sumumba

        voices need to be heard..but NOT forced on people…this is a COLLECTIVE effort not about one VOICE but ALL voices…to throw out over four months worth of OTHER voices is and then try to replace them with ONE is not only undemocratic but also goes against movement building and being respectful of the hundreds of voices that created this document…

  9. Urbaned

    By the way, NotShazz’s ass picture was a lot more attractive than NotSteves. Now I know I’m spending WAY TOO MUCH time here!!

  10. Lisa Rubenstein

    I find the ‘line in the sand’ language of Whiteness (unequal supremacist power) and Ghandian a tad divisive.

    • Urbaned

      Now, you are talking about issues, which is really what matters. Please supply the link to the language, etc. Thanks