Tweets for Wed, 08 Feb 2012

Posted by & filed under Livetweets.

Last night’s GA livetweets were somewhat hampered by a lack of livestream. We’re gonna LT the last proposal now from recorded audio. #nycga

RT @aaronbornstein: @LibertySqGA correction: The Bill Ayers convo is at Thurs Feb 9th, 7pm at 20 Cooper Sq, 5th Floor.

RT @aaronbornstein: @LibertySqGA Also, the first of the ThinkTank series on defining (non)violence and diversity of tactics will be Mond …

So, the proposal at hand is the proposal to assist with the funding of Ellis Roberts’ commissary, to tune of $220/month. #nycga #ows

Daryl’s PoI: “There are $92,000 dollars in the bail fund.” Earlier, Camille pointed out that the fund was to be used only for bail. #nycga

CQ: “This is not necessarily an OWS action he was arrested at. Are we then opening a door that anyone who’s arrested for anything…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…who identifies with the movement, we’re obligated to be in solidarity with him?” A: “I hear that concern; that night…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…was Ellis’ birthday, and.. we found out about that event because we went to GA. We thought it was an #OWS event.” #nycga #ows

CQ: “But my question is, does the language — is there any limit?” A: “The language is very clear; it says our OWS comrades.” #nycga #ows

A cont’d: “And I definitely think we know who’s part of #OWS and who’s active, and I think each circumstance will have unique aspects…”

Cont’d: “…but if they are part of #OWS, people’ll be there to say that.” CQ: “So but if I get arrested for selling pot…?” Camille has a PoI.

Camille’s PoI: “Another PoI from Jail Support: the deal w/ our representation from the NLG and whether or not people are from #OWS…” #nycga

Cont’d: “The NLG won’t represent you if you’re arrested selling pot. But if you’re arrested for protest activities they’ll represent you.”

Camille says that Ellis is being represented by the NLG, and this is a strong rule of thumb. Tony: “It was an #Occupy action.” #nycga

Tony: “If we decide we’re not going to honor any other #occupy actions, fine. #2, I was at a GA where we consensed we’d bail out any OWSer.”

Tony cont’d: “Someone brought up the same question about other crimes and they were twinkled to hell down.” #nycga #ows

Camille: “Precedent was set for this with the Oakland bail fund.” Sean is next on stack with a CQ. “Before we discuss the specifics of..”

Cont’d: “..this case, can we decide what we should be doing, and then figure out if this case applies? Decide how we should be doing it…”

Cont’d: “…and then ask the difficult question about whether it should apply here.” Camille just answered that, he’s told. #nycga #ows

.@CMarieDaniel: “To be clear, this would come from the bail fund?” A: “It comes from where it comes from.” Pressed further: “Yes.” #nycga

Stairs closing stack. Daryl points out that a member of #OWS is more likely to get arrested to begin with, and the “how is it?” and “what..”

Cont’d: “…was it for?” are conversations we didn’t get to have here. Advocates for more disclosure and case-by-case discussion. #nycga #ows

A: “Normally #OWS bails folks out; this is different b/c he’s in Riker’s and needs commissary. So the ? is does that support end in jail?”

[We’re currently LTing the last part of last night’s GA, regarding proposal to give Ellis Roberts $ for Riker’s commissary. -Ed.] #nycga

A cont’d: “I certainly hope that’s not the case. So what I’m asking for is #OWS to support our comrades if they end up in Riker’s.” #nycga

Cont’d: “And now there’s one there, and he’s been left alone with zero in his commissary since the 31st.” #nycga #ows

PoI: “In Riker’s island, they don’t feed you very much.” Says they often lock you without food for weeks on end. Commissary very important.

Lauren’s CQ: “As a matter of process, I wonder if this is a convo we need to be having in the Financial decisionmaking body, Spokescouncil.”

Lauren suggests that GA should weigh in on this now, but proposer says she put it up for both bodies and facilitation directed it to GA.

Daryl says he feels that it’s a movement decision, not just specifically a financial thing. “This is clearly an extra-budgetary issue…”

Cont’d: “…& the $’s already been allocated.” Stairs wants to confer w/ other facilitators to make sure the proposal’s in order. #nycga #ows

PoI is raised that it was directed to GA because it’s being brought by an individual (Spokes is a working-group centric body.) #nycga #ows

PoI cont’d: “If the GA doesn’t approve this the proposer can try to get support from their working group and bring it to Spokes.” #nycga

Stairs decides to speak with members of Facilitation before proceeding. The GA will now go into recess for a minute. #nycga #ows

OK, #NYCGA is “back in session” (this is last night’s conclusion). Stairs took a break to decide whether the proposal to extend the… #nycga

Cont’d: …bail fund to Ellis Roberts’ commissary at Riker’s island, is something GA can hear or needs to go to Spokes. #nycga #ows

Stairs says it was determined that since this relates to bail fund, not overall finances, it should go to GA. Anthony is uncomfortable…

…but he’s willing to go forward. PoI: “The bail proposal was passed by this body. The Spokes cannot modify a proposal the GA passed.”#nycga

Stairs temp-checks having a 5 minute convo. Daryl “point of processes” and suggests we don’t need that, should go forward. #nycga #ows

Anthony clarifies he’s willing to go forward, but wants the GA to decide for itself. He temp-checks continuing — looks good. #nycga #ows

Two more people are on stack for clarifying questions. Jack’s CQ: “We still don’t know how many ppl have cases pending…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…and if we did, we should also know what total amount of bail was spent. And also an estimate of future funds.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “And it would be good to know what money we expect back, could use that $ to help people like Ellis.” #nycga #ows

Camille says that Jail Support and Finance are working on just such a timeline. “That money, no matter if it was used for bail…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…before the fund was made, it would go back into the bail fund.” Redirecting it would, she says, be up to Spokescouncil. #nycga

Sage’s CQ.. sounds like he forgot he was on stack. “We discussed it in the breakout group and I feel that if properly expressed this…”

Cont’d: “…could easily pass tonight. There were clarifying questions, we have clarity. I think we all want this passed and for Ellis to…”

Cont’d: “…be supported while he’s in jail.” Joanne’s CQ is: they say “he’s not even getting food or water; how can this be?” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “That really cannot be, that’s not reasonable.” OK, that’s it for CQ stack. Now opening stack for concerns and friendly amendments.

First friendly amendment: “#OWS would not pay for a person until after the 7th day.” Also, “if convicted for a crime that has nothing to..”

Cont’d: “…do with #OWS actions, #OWS would end the funding.” Proposer accepts both. #nycga #ows

Lauren’s concern: “My concern is that this proposal- it’s hard for us to make this decision because it feels like two decisions at once.”

Lauren cont’d: “One question is, do we support someone who is in jail?” Suggests we answer that, and then address specific case. #nycga

Lauren: “It would be better to set a general precedent, than to have one person setting the precedent. Does that make sense?” Yes, ppl say.

Tony suggests that “the language is very general. It applies to all of us.” Lauren: “I think that’s true, but not that everyone’s hearing…

Cont’d: “…the general language.” Suggests we change the language a little bit to make more clear we’re talking about larger precedent.#nycga

A: “The bottom line of the proposal was a proposal that #OWS provide legal and commissary funds for any detained #OWSers.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “And specifically the commissary fund was $220/month.” $7.33/day. “That’s what the proposal is for.” #nycga #ows

Lauren says maybe she was confused because all of the CQs were about Ellis, and just needed it restated. #nycga #ows

Next C: “I just want to make sure that any decisions that are made have to be applied consistently and equally.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “Also, this movement is supposed to be non-hierarchical.” Notes that presentation “tried to clarify he was a bona-fide member..”

Cont’d: “…but in a way, you know, 1st-day occupier — it started feeling a bit like status and hierarchy. And I know it’s just…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…inadvertent, and that you were trying to state he is an active member, but I just think we should watch that.” #nycga #ows

A: “The reason I stated that was to highlight the duration of commitment to this movement. B/c honestly, I saw a lack of care…” #nycga

Cont’d: “..coming from this movement that killed me. You know, people were saying, how is Ellis related to #OWS? And I couldn’t believe it.”

C again: “It’s just a concern” — again, wants to make sure we’re careful about status & hierarchy. “We’re lucky it’s 1 person, what if 25?”

Last concern on stack. “My question/concern/possible friendly amendment: I’m hearing a lot of concern about setting precedent without..”

Cont’d: “..maybe really having thought it through carefully.” Notes it clashes with proposers’ goals to get Ellis funded now. #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “So, I’m wondering if it might be possible to make a proposal to fund Ellis for a month at least while this gets figured out.”#nycga

A: “I’m giving the down-fingers for that. This is not just for Ellis because it could be any of us. #OWS is now considered low-level…”

Cont’d: “..terrorism. Any of us could be in Riker’s.” Want to take care of comrades both if free and if detained. #nycga #ows

Amender again restates it was simply a way to maybe ensure the proposal passes. Proposer declines the amendment. #nycga #ows

That’s it for concerns; the proposer will now restate the proposal. “This proposal is for #OWS to provide legal support and $7.33/day…”

Cont’d: “…commissary for detained #OWSers. That’s $220/month.” FAs: “Commissary would end if #OWS was convicted of non-#OWS charge…”

Cont’d: “…and that it doesn’t start until 7 days in detention, and also that the money will come from the bail fund.” #nycga #ows

Anthony: “So at this pt in time, I’d like to ask the GA how it feels about going forward with the consensus process on this?” Looks good.

Anthony asks for standasides. “That’s when you don’t feel this should go forth, but not something” that’s a moral, ethical, safety concern.

No standasides. Someone CQ: “If he’s found guilty, would we still be paying budget amount for his food?” Notes will determine block. #nycga

Sean: “I’ll heavily not block, as long as it terminates at the acceptance of a guilty verdict.” Proposer accepts the amendment. #nycga #OWS

Proposer reconsiders, asks for a temperature check on “whether we should cease commissary funds if found guilty” of crime. #nycga #ows

Stairs: “I’m seeing a lot of down-twinkles.” So, the proposer actually doesn’t accept that friendly amendment. #nycga #ows

So, redoing consensus: two standasides. Now will ask for blocks… #nycga #ows

Stairs: “A block represents a moral, ethical, or safety concern. And Fuck Monsanto.” There’s one block. #nycga #ows

Block: “I don’t know for how long this is supposed to go; don’t know enough about case in general.” Thinks we should decide commissary…

Cont’d: …in general before determining if this one person gets it “Because, like, if someone does 10 years, do we pay commissary?” #nycga

Stairs clarifies this is not about the individual but is about people detained long-term in general. “This will be setting a precedent.”

Block: “I still have a block because I don’t know for how long it’s going to be. It seems very different from bail.” #nycga #ows

Stairs asks if there’s a friendly amendment to resolve block. Blocker suggests setting a short period of time as limit. #nycga #ows

Stairs suggests he propose a set time “rather than stating it vaguely.” Blocker notes she rejected Sean’s amndment so doubts can compromise.

So, the block stands. Stairs asks proposer if she wants to move to a 9/10ths majority vote, our fallback when consensus fails. #nycga #ows

Modified consensus: those for proposal? 16 for. How many against? 1. “YAY!” someone yells. Stairs: “This passes by modified consensus.”

“Free Ellis!” Anthony: “Fuck Monsanto! This was the last proposal that we had.” Opening stack for announcements. #nycga #ows

Sage: “I’m heading the Facilitation team for #SC tmrw. If any1 is of a religious persuasion, feels like praying for me, that’s appreciated.”

Anthony closes with a reminder that he’s agreed to take responsibility if that last proposal ends up being considered a breach of process.

Anthony: “I’m doing this on principle, b/c when I facilitate, I’m representing the process.” #nycga #ows

Stairs (Anthony): “& THE [2/7/12] GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS NOW DONE! FUCK MONSANTO!” “Fuck Monsanto!” [Thx fam. Seeya tonight. -Ed.] #nycga #ows

Hey fam! #NYCSC is starting right noooowwwww! Follow: here, @LibertySqGA2, @LibertySqGA3, & @LibertySqGA4 for livetweets/overflow. #nycsc

First, Archives report back. Trying to set up a candlelight vigil Friday at 6:30 outside Syrian consulate. It’ll go til Saturday AM. #nycsc

SIS: “We’ve lost access to the building,” they’re having a meeting about it. “We probably won’t lose access to the space.” #nycsc #ows

DA: “We’re building up to the GS; two General Strike meetings will be Wednesday and Saturday.” Other DA mtgs, Tues 5:30-8, / Sun 12-6 #nycsc

Jeff’s announcement: “Metrocards are here this evening.” CQ: “How long will you be here?” Jeff: “End of Spokes, or end of Metrocards.”#nycsc

RT @whimgrrl: Nxt #Occupy Glbal Rdtable:11amPST/7pmGMT Feb9 on Mumble All welcome! Setup RT @laurenriot @LibertySqG …

We’re taking a quick break so folks can get their Metrocards. #nycsc #ows

OK, we’re coming back. @Buddhagem is telling us about his idea to make a short video about the process we use. #nycsc #ows

They’re filming with three different cameras to show the process – asking folks who are uncomfortable being filmed to raise hands. #nycsc

Sage: “Just to be inclusive to the camera people, to do what we’re doing, instead of being exclusive, Dave has his camera pointed in…”#nycsc

Cont’d: “…this direction; you can easily sit over here and avoid being filmed.” #nycsc #ows

Filmer: “I’m making a long-format documentary, and my understanding now is everyone w/ exception of this one person is OK w/ it.” Yup!#nycsc

The film is going to be about more than the spectacle, she says, and will highlight our process. Might be on PBS! [Like! -Ed.] #nycsc #ows

Archives has one more announcement. “I thought it would be a good idea to gather some books together for Ellis.” Can get 4 books at a time.

Cont’d: “Maybe Saturday, if anyone is coming to Occupy Town Square Saturday, you can bring a book or two and we can send them off.” #nycsc

Cont’d: “They have to be paperback books. Not hardcover.” #nycsc #ows

Class War is working on an action for March 31st in Solidarity w/ Europe! They’re networking with other groups here. #nycsc #ows

Also, they’re starting a chapter of Class War WG on the West coast. “And Fuck Monsanto!” Quickly becoming Anthony’s catchphrase. #nycsc #ows

Joseph tells us that Ellis is being held at Riker’s until they extradite him to Pennsylvania. He asks for Legal to get on the case… #nycsc

Cont’d: …but I think they are already. Sage holds up the signup sheet for Spokes, who are the ppl empowered to speak frm each working group.

Coming to tonite’s agenda. Sage: “There’s a budget proposal. Besides that proposal, are there any proposals tht need to be on agenda?”#nycsc

No immediate takers. Hey, it’s @raviahmad, presenting this proposal! “This is a budget proposal in 2 parts; been worked on by a bunch of…”

Cont’d: “…groups, we’re hoping to take it to more groups in the coming days to make sure it’s something the community really believes in.”

Here’s the proposal: “A Proposal To Create a Budget Process for Spokescouncil.” It’s from Acccounting. Christine and Ravi proposing. #nycsc

Ravi: “If the full proposal is passed, there will be no petty cash.” Groups need to establish standing budget. #nycsc #ows

Ravi: “On Monday, we’ll seek consensus on building an #OWS-wide budget process where working groups propose recurring and one-time budgets.”

Ravi: “We believe by building a common process & reporting requirements, we’ll provide the transparency & efficiency this mvment deserves.”

The first three parts of the proposal we’ll discuss tonight are: to formally consent that all WGs that follow the terms of the InfoHub…

Cont’d: …proposal regarding working group requirements are able to participate in Spokescouncil… #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: …that Spokescouncil is the venue for OWS working groups to check each other’s direct budgetary access to the general fund…#nycsc

Cont’d: …and third, to agree to the abolition of the petty cash system by which working groups had received $100/day. #nycsc #ows

CQ, Facilitation: “We’re wondering if you can speak briefly to reason behind abolishing the daily petty cash.” #nycsc #ows

A: “Yes. On average, when we had petty cash, we were spending $3-5k a day in petty cash. Most of it was going to personal food…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…and transportation, even tho we had Metrocards and Kitchen, ppl found it easier just to spend it on transportation and food.”

Cont’d: “We’d try to say that if you send it on food, it has to be your whole group — ppl’d just consense to take their whole group out.”

Cont’d: “We have significantly less than $200k right now,” so it’s untenable. “Spending freeze came together out of need for a budget.”

Cont’d: “You can put discretionary funding in your budget, but having one person come get it..” “It wasn’t great.” #nycsc #ows

Town Planning: “I just wanted to note that the first thing (InfoHub proposal rule), we already consensed on.” It’s redundant. #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “Also, is petty cash a GA thing?” A: “It was essentially made up way back in the park; we consensed that GA needs to approve…”

Cont’d: “…everything over $100, which ppl took to mean under $100 didn’t need GA approval.” Got way out of control. #nycsc #ows

TP: “I just wanted to make sure we’re saying, kill it entirely.” A: “Yes. Kill it dead.” #nycsc #ows

CQ, Minutes: “Did this come from the financial assembly?” A: “Sort of. First mtg was well-attended, after that no one came.” #nycsc #ows

CQ: “What groups is this prop coming from?” A: “Accounting, Info, OWS Works, Sustainability.” Were more involved but aren’t here to sponsor.

CQ, TechOps: “Question about what you mean by ‘checking on each other’ in terms of budget- it says 2 or 4 weeks to…” #nycsc #ows

A, @raviahmad: “That’s in the second part of the proposal. Honestly, we couldn’t decide on length of time. Point is that everyone…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…who has a budget has to bring it back to Spokes and be re-consensed upon.” Depends on how many groups go through it. #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “If it was 10 groups, we could do it every 2 weeks. If it’s 25, could take a lot of time and maybe we want to do it once a month.”

TechOps wants a little elaboration about how they see the process going forward. A: “Monday, Medics reported back about their budget…”#nycsc

Cont’d: “…and it was OK, but a little rough, people were asking weird questions, why are you going to DC, etc.” So the idea with this…

Cont’d: …is to establish a standard structure and process for this type of reporting and to make it work better. #nycsc #ows

Also, Christine from Accounting notes that they get a lot of flak and don’t want to be the ppl to hold folks accountable. Would rather…

Cont’d: …ppl “report back on their budgets to the whole community” rather than leaning on Accounting for oversight. #nycsc #ows

Vision and Goals’ CQ: “I was wondering, for, like, travel, transportation, are we still eligible for that?” A: “If you guys need it, put…”

Cont’d: “…it in your budget.” Community will need to consense on the item based on the reasoning and purpose. #nycsc #ows

They also ask how to pay back or turn in receipts, email and they’ll set up a time. #nycsc #ows

V&G also: “Just quickly, there were some names and numbers on some spreadsheet?” Yeah they’ll talk about that later. #nycsc #ows

OccupyFarms’ CQ: “First, why is the financial information delayed until Monday?” A: “We just didn’t have time to get it all together.”#nycsc

CQ, part 2: “Given that Spokes are consensed on by working group, why is Spokes able to take over control of GA money?” #nycsc #ows

A: “I think the 1st issue is that Spokes was made operational Jan 2. But in the Spokes proposal, that’s the function of the Spokescouncil.”

Cont’d: “So, that’s what we’re doing, to make it more clear that operational groups in particular need to come to Spokes for $.” #nycsc #ows

Working groups are now conferring on concerns. We’re about to open stack for concerns on this proposal. #nycsc #ows

Before concerns, the proposers want to address some things they heard in the working group discussion. #nycsc #ows

First one is, yes, the Spokescouncil already approved the first item in this proposal, so that’s redundant. #nycsc #ows

Carrie from Minute asks about the word “operational” being left out of the proposal. A: Ops groups get budgets, but SC can… #nycsc

Cont’d: …be a place for all working group accountability for money, whether “operational” or not. #nycsc #ows

Next concern is the process of ratifying this to the GA. A: “Our understanding is the spending freeze required a budget to come to GA…”

Cont’d: “…to end the spending freeze.” It isn’t to gt approval, it’s to show GA “hey, we made a budget, the freeze is over now right?”#nycsc

Cont’d: “Part of the reason we’re bringing this proposal is because nobody else has.” #nycsc #ows

CQ: “So you’re saying the GA doesn’t have to consense on the budget?” A: “I think we need to look at minutes, but we’re proposing that…”

Cont’d :”…whatever minutes says we have to take to the GA, let’s take it to the GA.” That part of the proposal is for Monday anyway. #nycsc

CQ: “Is it really in the best interest of Spokes to take time to go through budgeting for each WG when there’s lots of other things for…”

Cont’d: “…spokes to be doing?” A: “It’s not individual budgets going to GA, it’s the big picture, the process, the big number. Since any…”

Cont’d: “…working group can come here to be a part of that process…” Also he suggests that line-item vetoes be part of that process. #nycsc

Ravi: “We’ll see.” More discussion of all this at Occupy Town Squares on Saturday. #nycsc #ows

Sage notes that facilitation is noticing there’s a bit of a back of forth, temp check allowing that conversational method. #nycsc #ows

Cool, people are into letting things be a little less formal, although Sage notes that only two parties should go back and forth at all.

Bless gets up to speak, saying he’s Spoke for Kitchen. He’s not, hahah. He’s gonna do it anyway. #nycsc #ows

Sage, to Bless: “The only reason we’re letting you speak is we don’t have anyone to pick you up and carry you out.” #nycsc #ows

Bless lets us know that he and Ice need help with breakfast in the kitchen. if you can help. #nycsc #ows

Housing’s concern is next, wants to make sure the second item has been generalized, which is true. Budget isn’t the *only* function of #SC.

Jeff (Housing) also feels the definition of “operational” becomes tricky when you open the SC up to all working groups. #nycsc #ows

A: “Yeah, we were talking about it with minutes — all WGs can discuss budgets.” Doesn’t mean that all WGs get one. #nycsc #ows

Jeff notes he feels it makes the whole definition of operational working groups moot, but steps back b/c we’re not discussing that tonight.

Anthony expresses his interpretation of the definition of “operational,” which is not part of this proposal and a contentious loop we’ve…

Cont’d: …gotten stuck in many times before. Everyone boos merrily. Moving on. #nycsc #ows

Anthony (Class War) continues. “This is very important stuff we’re dealing with right now, so let’s bring this discussion to our WGs.”#nycsc

Facilitation: “We just have a concern, it’s really straightforward, about getting the word out about this proposal. We know you don’t…”

Cont’d: “…need to post it, and you did send it in earlier today.” Ravi notes it’s been posted. “But we just want you to make sure…”

Cont’d :”…you get the monday proposal posted.” Ravi says yes, and she’ll be around and at Occupy Town Square, and everywhere! #nycsc #ows

TechOps’ C: “We have a problem with the clarification of the second one.” Less happy with something they wanted changed in the first…

Cont’d: …place than they were before. It’s the language about SC being *the* venue for budgetary proposals. #nycsc #ows

A: “We’re talking about it’s the sole venue for *recurring* budgets,” which go to Ops groups anyway. DA, movement stuff still goes to GA.

TechOps is still uncomfortable with “sole venue,” which is the new language. A: “This is confirming what is already happening.” #nycsc

A: “These are groups that ppl agree are operational. Groups with recurring budgets are pretty much operational.” #nycsc #ows

They acknowledge they can’t tell the GA how to give money, and can’t rule out the GA approving budgets. But they feel like the… #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: ..most consistent way to do direct budgeting is via Spokes. Things that need shorter-term funding for projects won’t need…

Cont’d: …a recurring budget. Next Concern: “RE: ending petty cash; is that frozen b/c of spending freeze?” A: “Yes.” #nycsc #ows

Concern: “When does the freeze end?” A: “There’s a lack of clarity on that.” Asks Minutes for help. “I thought it was for a month and…”

Cont’d :”…would come back if we didn’t do anything.” Others believe it will stay in effect until we pass a budget. “But either way, we…”

Cont’d: “…should pass a budget.” And also end petty cash before it comes back, so we can at least agree we need to budget. #nycsc #ows

They aren’t coming up with a budgetary process, they’re setting one up, so that when the freeze lifts, regardless of how, we’re good. #nycsc

The concerned spoke iterates that they would like to have more info about spending in past. A: “Yes. The discussion about…” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d :”…information on what we’ve spent is” in the proposal, specifies sharing that info. #nycsc #ows

C: “It’s our understanding that groups that are not operational also have the option of petitioning to become operational.” #nycsc #ows

A: “Yes. Absolutely. And that’s envisioned in larger proposal quite explicitly that we would restart ratification process.” #nycsc #ows

Jeff again. He’s totally into both the first item and the third item, notes Housing had issues with petty cash accountability. #nycsc #ows

Jeff: “I think what’s bothering me [re: the second one] is.. I understand sentiment behind it, but semantics can be really important.”#nycsc

Cont’d: “I just want clarity about what the change is from the original statement you had written about the purpose of Spokescouncil.”#nycsc

Jeff: “I just want clarity as to how this is different from what we consensed on previously.” #nycsc #ows

A: “Spokes has been the place where budgetary decisions are made.” I.e. Kitchen, Housing. “I think what we are saying when we say OWS..”

Cont’d :”…working groups will check each other’s budgetary access is that this involves groups reporting their budget to..” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d :”…spokescouncil at a given time, and that groups will have the opportunity to raise issues about those budgets.” We’re already…

Cont’d: …doing it, but they want to formalize it. Jeff: “If we’re already doing it, why are you proposing it?” #nycsc #ows

Ravi and Christine try to explain, it’s because it lays the groundwork for the bigger proposal. “Aside from the original SC proposal…”

Cont’d: “…we’re making an effort to structure the financial reportback process.” #nycsc #ows

Jeff says he doesn’t want us to consense to anything we’re not discussing, so if that is true, we should wait. #nycsc #ows

They want to clarify the language by adding to the second proposal explicit language requiring WGs to report back to SC on budgets. #nycsc

Jeff: “So that’s the whole purpose of the second line?” Everything else looks like existing policy. “Basically, you want reportbacks.”#nycsc

Sage asks us to temp check giving the proposers a few minutes to recompose their language. They’ll have a breakout grp re: part 2. #nycsc

OK, we’re coming back! Sage: “If you can hear me clap once!” (CLAP) “OK, that’s enough.” #nycsc #ows

Apparently the breakout group working on the language for part 2 wants 5 more minutes. Sage temp checks… looks good. OK, 5 more mins. #nycsc

Sage: “It’s 9:30, we’ve got to be out of here by 10. I’d like to have a 5 minute buffer at least.” First, we’ll hear the new language.#nycsc

Restating the proposal: “There are 2 directions we could go w/ this right now. A big concern raised in this breakout group is about…”

Cont’d: “..the second line, which at start read: “the Spokescouncil is the sole venue for WGs to check each others’ budgetary access.”

Cont’d: “That led into a conversation about whether it’s the sole place; what about movement groups versus operational groups? Who…”

Cont’d: “…gets to have a budget?” We could discuss that now, but are considering changing second line to: “One of the purposes…”

Cont’d: “…of Spokescouncil is as a body where budgets are formed, checked, and agreed on by the community.” Rest of convo would be Monday.

They ask facilitation to temp-check changing that second line, b/c they want to make sure it doesn’t raise any new concerns: #nycsc #ows

“One of the purposes of SC is as a body in which recurring budgets of WGs are formed, checked, and reported back to the community.” #nycsc

OK, so the temp check was very positive, looks like no new concerns were raised. So, that’s the new language for part 2. #nycsc #ows

Sage is now asking for Standasides. There’s one. FunHub? […. who? -Ed.] Someone points out WGs need to confer first. #nycsc #ows

FunHub stood aside. Archive has a PoP questioning their legitimacy. They’re actually “Fundraiser Hub” and are legit apparently. #nycsc #ows

There’s one block: Women Occupying Wall Street. “We believe that breaking this up into two different discussions isn’t the right…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…thing to do.” Don’t think rules should be generated and then discussed, but vice versa. Cart before horse. #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “This is something happening in #OWS quite a bit; do something and then talk about it.” Want rules to come from discussion. #nycsc

A: “I really wish you brought this up earlier. I had no idea this was a blocking concern for your group; wish it had been expressed.” #nycsc

WoW responds: “I don’t think the process we’ve gone through has allowed for that.” Lots of muddiness, didn’t have concern til now. #nycsc

A: “I think the reason we felt it was really important to do those 3 things first is that often, these conversations get really bogged…”

Cont’d: “…down in details, and we think some of the most important groundwork is in these first 3 things, to rein the convo in.” #nycsc

They also feel these first three things are things we all basically agree on. “If we discussed the whole thing, it wouldn’t pass right now.”

Cont’d: “Let’s consense on the things we all agree on, and then” move forward from there on the more contentious ideas. #nycsc #ows

Ravi: “Also, to follow up on financial assembly – no one showed up. Was to be 4 hours long. Doing this in one SC is impossible, so…”

Cont’d: “..we split it up into pieces.” Note immediacy of need to end petty cash before possible end of freeze Wednesday. #nycsc #ows

Ravi: “We may only have today and Monday; feel that w/o groundwork, this wouldn’t be fruitful Monday.” Was tactical decision. #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “We just want to explain where we’re coming from. It may or may not alleviate your block.” WoW will converse. #nycsc #ows

Sage brings us back. “It’s 9:45, we have to do this now. Does your block still stand, WoW?” A: “Yes, it does still stand.” #nycsc #ows

WoW: “We think that the rules shouldn’t come before the conversation.” Proposers look to be aiming to modified consensus. #nycsc #ows

WoW restate their block: “We don’t believe the first 3 sections we’re consensing on tonight should be done before the fourth…” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “…section. That should be a part of this conversation.” Ravi: “We feel comfortable we understand your block; although we disagree..”

Cont’d: “..we hope our comments about needing to have these particular discussions within these time periods explain our view.” #nycsc #ows

So, we voted 18 up, 2 down. But then the Kitchen spoke took issue with the result, so we’re having a recount. 19 yays this time. #nycsc #ows

And now 3 down. So, they’re trying to get consensus on just ending petty cash now…. #nycsc #ows

Not happening; we have to leave. So, the proposal didn’t pass, but the discussion is already scheduled to continue Monday. #nycsc #ows

OK! That’s it! Thanks for tuning into another Spokescouncil, fam. Much love. #nycsc #ows

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