Tweets for Tue, 20 Dec 2011

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post-consensus jubilation #nycsc #ows http://t.co/rmZaXAAt

@michaeldbirch Great! Take note that we are having GA indoors as a trial run this week. 56 Walker at 7pm. NOT #Zuccotti.

RT @OWScom: Tonight at 7pm GA will be held at a new location, 56 Walker St. NYC #OWS

Hi everyone! Tonight’s GA is *indoors* at 56 Walker! Follow here and @LibertySqGA2, @LibertySqGA3, and @LibertySqGA4. #nycga #ows

Christina and Nathan will facilitate tonight. “Welcome to the first indoor General Assembly!!” #nycga #ows

Stairs (facilitation): “This is a trial tonight in this space; we’ll be here tonight and on Thursday, then we’ll reassess if makes sense.”

Cont’d: “This means there’s a hard time limit; 10:30. Let’s think super hard about the way we allocate time tonight. There are 5 proposals.”

Cont’d: “Also, there are rules that come w/ this space that are outside of our community agreements- no loitering outside; if you leave…”

Cont’d: “…go down the block; neighbors get mad. No smoking right out front, no shouting inside or outside, no fighting, no intoxication.”

David is explaining that last night, the energy at Spokes here was upsetting to neighbors and thus to the owner of this space. #nycga #ows

“The owner said, re: us being here for January, it’s off for now. Let’s see how it goes tonight, he said. Let’s take responsibility…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…so we’ll have the option to come here in the month of January.” Stairs thanks him, asks we be mindful. #nycga #ows

Stairs: “We’re going to start with a video from Organization; will be 5 minutes. Then there’s an emergency proposal, but we don’t have…”

Cont’d: “..any details, so if they’re here they can state it and then we’ll decide if it’s an emergency proposal.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “Then, there are 5 agenda items: from Mobile Screenprinting, Info/Comhub re: working groups, Sanitation re: laundry debt…”

Cont’d: “…then facilitation re: ongoing budget, and then Occupy Christmas.” Order tonight is in order of submission, which is unusual.#nycga

Nathan notes someone is setting up a shot for the BBC. PR notes they’re doing a story on the kitchen. “Not filming GA, but Kitchen serving.”

We’re cool w/ the BBC filming our glorious Kitchen! Now, Nathan is reviewing hand signals. #nycga #ows

“Some of the basic hand signals – uptwinkles; I agree; downtwinkles; I’m not feeling it; this bothers me. Midtwinkles, I’m not sure.”#nycga

“If you have a point of information that is relevant to the proposal, like a fact, put one finger up. If you can’t hear ppl tonight…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…point upwards. If we stray from process tonight [put yr diamonds in the sky] to make a point of process.” Stairs will respond.

Cont’d: “We’ll allow you to address why you think we’ve strayed from process and respond accordingly.” #nycga #ows

Proposal process: “We have 5-8 proposals this evening; the more effectively we use the process, the more we’ll get to.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “We’ll hear proposals from the proposal; then we’ll go through clarifying questions to make sure we understand the proposal.” #nycga

Cont’d: “Clarifying questions make you feel sure you know what the proposal is about. Once you’re sure, you may have concerns, so…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…we’ll open stack on concerns. Then, friendly amendments that might address your concerns.” #nycga #ows

Now, a block “does not mean I don’t like the proposal; it means you have a serious moral, ethical, or safety concern that was so dire…”

Cont’d: “…that if the proposal was to pass, you’d want to separate yourself from the movement.” Taken very seriously. #nycga #ows

And @carriem213 is taking stack! A list of speakers. “At #OWS, we use progressive stack, where voices traditionally marginalized…”#nycga

Cont’d: “..receive priority. We also use ‘step up step back’, so if you’re someone encouraged to speak all your life, maybe step back…”

Cont’d: “…and make room for someone who hasn’t been encouraged to be heard all their lives.” #nycga #ows

OK! Now we’re going to watch a video frm Organization. Haywood: “We got consensus Thurs to say thank you to ppl who’ve helped us out.”#nycga

Cont;d: “Over 5000 people have donated to us; we’ve never communicated to them even to say thank you.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “We wanted to [make a video] on #D17, but the police fuckin’ us up kind of fucked that plan up. But, then, we found David, who…”

Cont’d: “…if you remember, made awesome Occupy commercials a month ago. Had been working on a love letter from Occupy.” #nycga #ows

David is showing us a video. Watch at livestream.com/owsnyc! #nycga #ows

RT @walden212: @theonewhoknits @LibertySqGA The NYCGA livestream is at http://t.co/qAWyRhtz

@michaeldbirch thanks for coming michael!!

This video is amazing. Heavily features Andy, Nicole from facilitation and Sandy from DA. Making me cry a bit. #nycga #ows

“This is about economic justice, and you can’t take that with 400 riot police.” – Andy #nycga #ows

.@dontbeaputz didn’t like it as much, hahah. #nycga #ows

Nan, out of process, is complaining that the video doesn’t include everyone, just “the popularity people.” #nycga #ows

Yes, very soon, it’s on YouTube as private right now. RT @MegRobertson: @LibertySqGA Will the video be posted online anywhere? #OWS

OK, now for emergency proposals. First one was from Trish’s “NYCGA Council,” but she’s not here so it’s withdrawn. #nycga #ows

Second emergency proposal is from Nan’s Strong Woman Rules. The sheet that was given to facilitation had no info so we’ll find out… #nycga

Cont’d: …what Nan wants to bring up and then we’ll decide whether we consider it an emergency proposal, i.e. it has a… #nycga

Cont’d: “…previously-unknowable imminent external deadline.” #nycga #ows

Nan: “The proposal was about something that took place; me and Trish, unfortunately she’s not here.” #nycga #ows

“We felt like facilitation was not doing their job properly last night; the proposal is a 3-part proposal, but Trish isn’t here to talk…”

Cont’d: “…on that, so we decided to table it, and since we’re occupying Zuccotti Park, we’re going to wait for the next GA…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…in Zuccotti Park and talk about it there.” OK. Tabled, going to Mobile Screenprinting’s Proposal! #nycga #ows

Stairs: “We’ve allotted 20 minutes for each agenda item.” Explaining to all the folks who’ve filtered in that we have hard end time: 10:30.

Sage is concerned with something: “This is like a lot of participation, it’s inside, and I don’t want proposals strategically choosing…”

Cont’d: “…really difficult-to-get-to general assemblies, so that 6 ppl in the rain can pass it.” #nycga #ows

That was apparently re: Nan wanting to wait for an in-park GA. #nycga #ows

OK, screen guild! Lisa! “We make these things and we raise money for the movement! (t-shirts). We’d like others in the movement…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…to have that opportunity as well. So, this is a proposal to fund Mobile Screen Labs. We’ve already done 3 of them; we got $ for..”

Cont’d: “…2 of them here in November.” Costs $150 each. They want $3000 to get 20 of them, w/ all equipment needed. #nycga #ows

OK, Stairs opening stack for clarifying questions. “First on stack is Matt.” Matt: “I love stuff like this; things that promote our…”

Cont’d: “…movement tend to receive little resistance. But what’s the average cost for paint, resources, how many tshirts are utilized…”

Cont’d: “…how would you describe paint versus number of tshirts you can do?” #nycga #ows

A: “You mean how many shirts per amount of ink?” Q: “Yeah.” A: “Good question; we’re not sure. It depends on how much is used.” #nycga #ows

A cont’d: “We ended up doing thousands a day in the park; the ink is relatively cheap. $15/quart, get few hundred shirts from that.” #nycga

CQ. Haywood: “You guys are great — they’re pretty much our only revenue stream right now. They come back with stacks of cash…”

Cont’d: “…and it would be great if other occupations could have that as well. But when you’re going and giving this stuff to other…”

Cont’d: “…occupations, are you making sure they have a bank account and it’s not just going to an individual’s account?” #nycga #ows

A: “Good question; we’ve not asked. In Newark, it was understood it was going to general fund. In Boston – they are so skint right now…”

Cont’d: “…it’s such a desperate situation, as in Washington. So, we were — it was understood by the contacts that were made within…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…those camps that the money was going general. But we’ll have to monitor that in the other cities.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “I don’t know if we can dictate that it goes to the GA, but we’re not funding startup businesses. So far, hasn’t happened.” #nycga

CQ: “So, you’re sending kits or the money?” A: “We’re sending kits; we make screens here (cheap to do in bulk here), and hopefully…”

Cont’d: “..they’ll be able to raise the money using our screens to do designs of their own.” #nycga #ows

She mentions that designers came to do screens in the park after seeing ours — “so it incites donations.” #nycga #ow

CQ: “How do you decide which occupations?” A: “They’ve been reaching out to us; we went to DC and met some ppl, Craig from Austin…”

Cont’d: “…so it’s been kind of moving around. Also, half of our group make a lot of political posters. We’re trying to find ppl who..”

Cont’d: “..want to go to the occupations and get things started.” They’re not sending ppl, just kits, and using networks to pull skilled..

Cont’d: ..printers. “it’s about skill so you can maintain them, not destroy them w/ one use.” #nycga #ows

Stairs closes stack on CQs. CQ: “Are you also intending to hold teach-ins at occupations so others can learn how to do the printing?” #nycga

A: “We’re trying to do it — you know, tailoring each thing to each occupation. Sometimes it’s b/c ppl are going for personal reasons…”

Cont’d: “…like, someone was going to Boston, she brought the stuff and found ppl who could do the printing, and next night had a seminar…”

Cont’d: “..at a space they found like “this is how you do it.”" They’re also making a training how-to video. #nycga #ows

A cont’d: “So, we’re making teaching materials available,” and trying to hook ppl up who already know how to screen print. #nycga #ows

A cont’d: “So, yeah, we’re doing it really slowly; not just sending out kits and hoping it works.” Finding ppl onsite. #nycga #ow

Stairs notes we’re 5 minutes from time on this; Nathan suggests folks be a little briefer. “We can extend time, but let’s” try to be brief.

CQ: “The $3000 — are you expecting this money to come back to #OWS or these other places?” A: “No, this is about fundraising for…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…other occupations.” We won’t ask them to repay or replace the screens, which do have a limited life. #nycga #ows

A cont’d: “We have a little money; if we send $75 of supplies, they may make $3000.” #nycga #ows

Next CQ, Nick: “You’re asking for $3k. Do you have a sorted list of what — each, how much is going to what?” #nycga #ows

A: “Yeah. Squeegees $15/each, 2 per kit. Screens w/ image, $40 each, 2 per kit. It’s like, spray bottle, ink, 2 quarts of ink $15/ea..”

Cont’d: “…so that’s how we got $150 for one kit. We won’t be getting $3000 all at once; we’ll do it kit by kit.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “Little bits at a time, as people are ready to accept these kits.” Stairs now opening stack on Concerns. #nycga #ows

Nan’s concern: “I just heard that you’re a very hard worker, and I applaud you. Those are the ppl I’m behind. But my concern is, you came..”

Cont’d: “…to ask us for money, and I’m not going to block you, I support you 100%. But next time I’d like to see an itemized list so we…”

Cont’d: “…can better look at it.” A: “It’s on the website.” Q: “Yeah, but keep in mind, it’s the GA, not the Spokescouncil, not everyone…”

Cont’d: “…has access.” CQ, Jake: “What happens if the money is gone before you are ready to spend the money?” #nycga #ows

Jake suggests they take it up front. A: “I didn’t realize that that was an issue! If that’s a concern, I hope Finance will raise it…”

Cont’d: “…I mean, accounting.” Haywood from Fina– uh, Accounting, thanks her. #nycga #ows

OK, now onto Friendly Amendments stack. “Just to be clear, if you have a FA you think will help you support this proposal, it’s up to…”

Cont’d: “…proposer to decide if it’s friendly or not and whether to accept it.” #nycga #ows

FA: “Train me, so I can fly out and bring someone!” A: “Can’t accept as FA, but we do train ppl!” Proposer learned this here! #nycga #ows

FA: “As different occupies start generating their own shirts, maybe request they reimburse us so we can do this for more occupations.”#nycga

A: “I’d not like to accept that FA, b/c they are so fucked in other cities, and we have so much $ compared to what they have, and so much..”

Cont’d: “…better fundraising capabilities. I can raise that $150 w/ 10 tshirts.” They’ve raised at least $25k. #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “So, I think we should just give it. Also I don’t want to follow up w/ them and be like, oh you owe us $150.” #nycga #ows

Nan’s FA: “It’s a little silly, but if you’re going to send out a kit, I’d like to include the logo of our WG in the kit.” A: “No.” #nycga

Cont’d: “We’d like to send it out as us; it’s occupy to occupy.” #nycga #ows

FA, Corey: “Send out a few of the kits; get a report — how are they doing? is it working out? And then proceed, if it is?” #nycga #ows

FA cont’d: “Or, if you don’t want to do that, I’d just like to see a report back, how it’s going.” #nycga #ows

A: We did that w/ Newark, Boston; have continued to be a resource. “But it’s not like it’s a grant and they have to tell us stuff back.”

Cont’d: “I don’t want an extra administrative thing b/c that would have stopped me from doing it here.” #nycga #ows

Next, Sage’s FA: “I see you guys have some very worthy skills, and I’m hearing that you share those skills w/ this community..” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “..I know you did it at the Park. But next time you have a skillshare, if you could flier for it among the ppl in this movement…”

Cont’d: “…who might not have skills, like the McDonald’s and the Atrium and outside GAs… the skills you have, you’re sharing the…”

Cont’d: “…tools w/ the other occupations, but” — wants them to share skills with us more too. #nycga #ows

A: “No, it’s great. We’ve been trying to figure out, can we go to the churches? It’s kind of messy, inky– things to negotiate.” #nycga

A cont’d: “…but yeah. And we did it at the skillshare yesterday that Sustainability put on.” #nycga #ows

Last FA, Haywood: “This is something that Accounting is floating around; when you do this and ship it off– would you accept a FA…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…to have a bank account #, and a GA — to make sure they have a GA or spokes or democratic body w/ an account so it doesn’t…”

Cont’d: “…go into someone’s pocket? Like the most basic organizational stuff in our movement.” #nycga #ows

A: “I’m not going to accept it –” Haywood: “OK. Cool.” A: “–but I will ask about it.” #nycga #ows

No FAs accepted, so it’s still “a $3000 budget allotment for mobile screen kits for other occupations around the US — I wish it were for..”

Cont’d: “…occupations beyond, but we can’t afford the shipping. Anyway.” Stairs asks for blocks? No blocks! CONSENSUS! #nycga #ows

Stairs: “And I believe we did that only about 3 minutes over time, so… way to go, indoor GA!” #nycga #ows

Stairs: “So, we’re going to move ahead; there’s space here if y’all want to sit down.” Still not using ppl’s mic! [Ed: Argh!] #nycga #ows

Next, Info/ComHub! Stairs: “Once again, we’re starting out w/ 20 minutes for this proposal.” #nycga #ows

Info: “There’s currently 100+ groups on the nycga website; we’re trying to understand who they are. There’s so many of us; we need…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…to have certain ways…” We’re switching to people’s mic b/c she’s quiet! Yay! [I mean, yay! -Ed.] #nycga #ows

“I’m going to briefly describe the proposal.” She’s reading it verbatim so I’m going to paste the link for y’all… #nycga #ows

Info/ComHub proposal: “Working Groups: Hey, Who’s Still Around?” http://t.co/ewrLPcZQ — being introduced now. #nycga #ows

So, it’s essentially a proposal to define a working group w/ basic terms and restrict groups on our GA site to those that are local, active.

She is done reading it. “Thank you! That’s a lot of information. Can you summarize it briefly?” #nycga #ows

Summary: “We have a lot of groups!” Some are dupes, some are inaccessible, some are maybe not for real. #nycga #ows

First on CQ stack: Nan! “Thank you very much for the fliers; we appreciate them at GA and the NYCGA Council.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “But my question for you guys is this. There are some groups out there doing work for the ppl, they don’t want to be recognized..”

Cont’d: “…this is going to restrict working groups that don’t announce, like my group, we do different kinds of things in private. So…”

Cont’d: “…I feel like you guys are pushing your agenda. This is GA, not spokescouncil. It’s not right or just.” #nycga #ows

Stairs: “That’s not a question, it’s a concern.” Nan: “My question is this: who came up w/ this idea?” #nycga #ows

Nan: “Some groups may not want to identify themselves. They may want to stay anonymous, b/c this is an anonymous movement.” #nycga

Stairs tries to make sense of her question:”It’s ‘did you post it online and get feedback from groups w/ sensitive histories?’” #nycga #ows

A: “We did post it; got some suggestions. We didn’t reach out specifically to all working groups ahead of time, but partly because..”#nycga

Cont’d: “…we can’t. Many WGs have no info, so we can’t reach out to them.” Suggests she make an FA about reaching out. #nycga #ows

A cont’d: “As far as remaining confidential, 5 members is not a lot. And you don’t have to show past histories. All of our groups, DA…”

Cont’d: “…for example have stuff they shouldn’t make public until a certain amount of time. And we don’t want this to be a situation…”

Cont’d: “…where we’re making it hard for people who are doing confidential wrk. Bt 5 people is a low threshold. It’s a basic request.”#nycga

Stairs notes we’re 10 minutes into the 20 minutes for this. Closing CQ stack. #nycga #ows

Next CQ, Robert: “Oh, deja vu. Um, one of your standards for legitimacy for one of the subgroups is to hold true to the NYCGA principles…”

Cont’d: “…of solidarity. It self-describes as a slipper– i’m sorry, “living document”. How do you hold groups to a standard that…”

Cont’d: “…self-describes as changing?” A: “Good question; that’s why we are bringing it to the GA, who can decide this.” ComHub doesn’t…

Cont’d: “…want to police this.” Example is the “I love Goldman Sachs Group” from Illinois “probably shouldn’t be on our website.” #nycga

CQ: “Some of the groups on the website are private, so I guess they’d have to be public? Should we say “OK you’re a group, or…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “..or should they go to GA?” Jake notes that NYCGA lets you set groups as private, but it’s a flaw and it will be disabled. #nycga

Sage’s CQ: “So, my concern is, in the 30-day period, does this mean that in that period you’re trying to figure out whether they…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…fit the community agreements we’re discussing now, they get $100/day? Because that seems lk a very expensive grace period.”#nycga

She starts to answer, but Sage politely interrupts and asks her to try to make sure she answers such that “I can fit it in my RAM.” #nycga

Sage explains he is worried folks can scam by making new group every 30 days. A: “The 30 day grace period is one-time, any new working…”

Cont’d: “…groups need to go through the GA.” Jake clarifies again, any new group doesn’t get the grace period. Sage thanks them. #nycga #ows

A: “I don’t think a lot of groups are bad,” disagrees with framing and objects to bureaucracy, worried about needing contact info… #nycga

Cont’d: …because some people don’t have any. “I don’t think making it harder to engage is a solution.” #nycga #ows

Stairs notes it sounded like a concern. He rephrases. “It sound like you’re trying to exclude people to make the problem go away.” #nycga

Stairs notes that Concerns will come up after CQs. PoI in response tho: “Part of this proposal entails that TechOps and ComHub are willing..

Cont’d: “…to bend over backwards to help those w/o phone #s get them.” #nycga #ows

CQ, Marco: “What does it exactly mean that the groups need to be in the 5 boroughs?” #nycga #ows

A: “We’re #OWS, not #OccupyChicago. We love helping movement but need to be clear that we work locally.” #nycga #ows

CQ: “So, meetings have to be here, or people have to move here?” A: “Meetings have to be here.” #nycga #ows

One more CQ, then we’ll review extending time. Stan: “Is ComHub/Info going to go to the GA every GA if a group falls out of that…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…30-day period and say ‘this working group has no longer showed the GA that they’re a working group’?” #nycga #ows

A: “Every single person who’s a part of #OWS should be at every GA. So yes.” Folks are confused, they clarify tech/comhub… #nycga #ows

Cont’d: …always has at least one member present at GA. “So, yes.” But, notes that the 30-day period happens only once. #nycga #ows

Stairs temp-checked 5 more minutes. It was so positive, we temp-checked 10 minutes. 10 minutes it is. #nycga #ows

First on Concerns stack: Joseph. “I like the GA, I like Spokescouncil, #OWS — I like all that. But I think one thing that we all miss…”

Cont’d: “…out on, and it’s not bad, it’s normal, is we all come from different backgrounds and have different experiences.” #nycga #ows

Joseph notes that we just don’t “live each others’ lives”, ppl get judgmental but it’s just a lack of sensitivity. #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “So, I think sometimes things get passed because there is a lack of sensitivity.” #nycga #ows

Joseph is suggesting that we spend time talking about differences of experience; it’s a different proposal. “That’s a really good proposal..

Cont’d: “..you should make this an actual proposal,” ComHub says. Stairs feels “an obligation to recognize points of process, while…”

Cont;d: “…appreciating what you said.” Joseph thanks them. Next Concern: “It’s a really good idea to consolidate, get groups organized…”

Cont’d: “I’m a little confused about a working group versus an affinity group — affinity groups don’t take money from the GA?” #nycga

Cont’d: “But certainly the office allocates 10s of 1000s of dollars from somewhere– I guess it’s not ours…” #nycga #ows

Stairs asks if she is sure the question is relevant to the proposal. She’s not sure, Stairs asks her to be concise. #nycga #ows

CQ: “Well, what’s the difference between obligations of an affinity group and a working group?” #nycga #ows

A: “This only covers WGs attached to GA, and I honestly couldn’t tell you what an affinity group is.” #nycga #ows

Next, concerns. “There were some ppl w/ concerns b/c of unavailability of contact info,” suggests ppl could go to Charlotte’s Place…#nycga

Cont’d: …and use the free computers there, “set up an email, maybe a Facebook page,” you could set it up! #nycga #ows

A: “Thank you. If the proposal’s passed, we’ll make sure to add that into the information w/ it.” #nycga #ows

POI: “The Tech group has the ability to make group emails, but we need a framework like this so we know what is a group, and then…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…we can provide people with emails and phone numbers.” #nycga #ows

.@shawncarrie notes (POI) that there are working groups working on access, there are many resources, and the library has some. #nycga #ows

There’s 1 more POI. “Not a lot of people do trust giving up their contact info.” Stairs notes that’s not quite a POI, but that’s ok. #nycga

Nan’s concern: “I feel like you guys are marginalizing people w/ this proposal; basically disrespecting a working group w/ this proposal..”

Cont’d: “…and you guys have no right whatsoever to demand such a thing from a working group. WGs are working their butt off #1, and…”

Cont’d: “…especially if you’re working with a working group, you don’t have time to scratch your own butt.” #nycga #ows

A: “This group doesn’t have the power to do anything; the GA does, and what we’re asking is for the GA to do that.” #nycga #ows

A cont’d: “We don’t claim any power, just as none of the WGs can impose anything on anyone. That’s why we’re at GA.” #nycga

A cont’d: “Plus, you don’t have to use your own email. You can make a new one, you can use google voice, there are many things, we…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…want to make sure these resources are available; that’s why we’re doing it.” #nycga #ows

Also, “We know working groups are working hard; that’s why we want to do this, to help you get volunteers.” Improves cohesion. #nycga

Stairs: “We’re gonna close stack on Concerns.” Also, we’re out of time again. “This happens; it’s been going on pretty well.” #nycga #ows

“6 more ppl on stack for concerns, then friendly amendments, then we’ll see how we’re moving towards consensus.” Tempchecking 10 minutes…

Stairs: “That’s pretty mixed, it looks like to me!” Now checking for 5; it looks mixed still. Checking w/ proposers.. #nycga #ows

Proposers: “We’ll take it forward, if ppl are ready to vote on it.” We’ll skip to consensus process, ask for blocks. #nycga #ows

Ppl are a little confused. “Since the group did not give a positive reaction to extending time, and the proposers didn’t table it….”#nycga

Cont’d: “…we’ve moved directly to blocks.” Some mild consternation. I think ppl want to make FAs. #nycga #ows

Stairs: “Once again, where we were at, we ran out of time for a second time. Proposers had option to table it; decided not to.” #nycga #ows

Stairs noting that sometimes folks express disinterest in extending time because they’re ready for consensus. #nycga #ows

Stairs temp checking extending for 5 minutes; this time it was very positive. “We’re going to go ahead.” #nycga #ows

Sage’s POP: “So, we as a community… use blocks as FAs anyway. So if we just shift to blocks and bust those out, we’ll get thru this..”#nycga

Cont’d: “…a lot faster.” Says it just determines if someone speaks twice or once. #nycga #ows

Stairs thanks Sage, but wants to continue w/ Concerns. “We’ve taken up a lot of time talking about this tho, so we’re going to move ahead.”

Next, Phoenix’s Concern: “Re: Library; you have to be a resident of New York to use their computers.” Very bureaucratic. #nycga #ows

A: “Thank you, that’s a good point,” although someone says you can get a guest pass. But Tech Ops will help someone get access thru them.

Next C, Marco: “I have a concern; I live in Jersey City. I wasn’t planning to go to Ohio, just the Jersey side. There’s a NYC political…”

Cont’d: “…entity, and there’s a NYC geographical entity.” He lives 2 miles from GA. #nycga #ows

A: “I love Jersey, and I don’t care if you live, but the meetings need to happen in New York City.” #nycga #ows

Kyle says he’s been in NYC for 5 days and can’t find WGs, loves this idea. So wonders if they can have a meeting time to direct folks…

Cont’d: …to tech resources. A: “That’s a great idea.” Drew notes the #: 1 855 NYCGA 411 has all info from site. Nice math! #nycga #ows

Next Concern: “The part of this proposal that says you need 5 members in attendance for 3 consecutive weeks; who’s going to enforce that?”

A: “The actual meaning is 5 member minimum and public meetings.” So it’s actually got to be <5 for 3 consecutive weeks, not vice versa.

A cont’d: “It’s good faith. But ppl should be joining your group! If people show up and no one is there, they’ll bring it to GA.”#nycga #ows

Stairs notes we’re out of time, but “we’ve been working on this for awhile and I think it’s gone amazingly. Everyone’s been respectful.”

Stairs will now re-check time; clarifies that if we decline to extend, we’ll move to consenus. #nycga #ows

OK, checking for Blocks. There’s a bunch, but most just want to make amendments. Time limits are newish and still have some kinks. #nycga

@OTHoccupier you don’t have to be at every GA. i think she misspoke. but i hope you come as much as you can.

OK, so we’ll review blocks. Sage has a POP tho: “I propose that we accept as a group that if someone has already spoken to their block..”

Cont’d: “…and it’s the same as their concern, maybe we can’t afford to spend the time to hear their concern.” Nan objects. #nycga #ows

Stairs acknowledges that “let’s all be concise, and if your block is the same as your concern, you can make it even more concise.” #nycga

Drew was blocking to make an amendment that “groups should be required to be public on website.” A: “Done.” #nycga

Robert: “Since holding groups to a shifting standard isn’t really ethical, if the standard shifts, could a new 30-day compliance…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…window be applied,” then he’d remove his block. Referring to Principles of Solidarity’s malleability. #nycga #ows

A: “What we’re willing to accept as a group is if Principles of Solidarity shift in way material to proposal, will have new 30-day period”

Cont’d: “I’d assume that if there were major shifts, this would all change anyway, but yes, we accept.” Robert: “Block removed.” #nycga

Next block wants to expand to NY Metro area. A: “Accepted.” #nycga #ows

Next block wanted to make sure #s being given would be toll-free. A: “Yes!” Block removed. #nycga #ows

Next block says this is going to homogenize our culture. “You’re pushing things away when we should have as many types of groups..”#nycga

Cont’d: “…as possible.” Stairs asks if there’s an amendment that would fix it, and he says he just thinks we want to push groups out. #nycga

A: “We don’t want to. We really don’t. We just wnt to make working groups more accessible.” Blocker will register as standaside. #nycga #ows

Next block is concerned about “further concentration of power” – cites the redundancy concerns. Accuses proposers of being powerful. #nycga

Lots of down twinkles to that. A: “There’s nothing to say that groups must dissolve; we’re not evaluating work or overlap between group…”

Cont’d: “…or asking groups to disband.” Stairs asks if there’s an amendment that would satisfy block… #nycga #ows

…she says, “I want something about concentration of power.” “This has nothing to do with this proposal.” #nycga #ows

A: “Can I explain what I do? I call WGs and ask them what they’re up to and what they need, how they could be better-connected…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…so we can do our jobs and fight more effectively. That’s all I do.” Stairs: “I see points of process & points of affection.”#nycga

Blocker: “I don’t doubt her intentions.” Stairs asks if her block holds; she says “it should be reworked, I really think so.” #nycga #ows

Stairs notes that since a block is holding, we’ll end up at modified consensus, but continuing w/ blocks. #nycga #ows

Sage: “A lot of solutions are top-down, and are well-thought-out, but then someone comes bottom-up and blows it up because when you…”

Cont’d: “…have no resources, you find ways to make shit work.” Since this is top-down, he questions its effectiveness, but… #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…if you could just spend some time thinking about what it would look like if ppl in the park had made a proposal to block 1 or 2..”

Cont’d: “…of you, but not all of you, how would that feel?” He has a FA tho. “If ComHub were to commit to spending 1 full night at…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…McDonald’s or Fulton St train station every other week, and I’d also take 3 ppl from any office WG, to actually commit to…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…spending — not 12 hours, I’ll be reasonable — 6.5 hours at McDonald’s, I’ll drop it.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “And if you don’t, I’ll give you a week leeway, but you have to show up at least every other week.” #nycga #ows

Hahahah. Stairs: “Thank you, Sage.” Proposers respond: Ronnie: “I’ll do it.” APPLAUSE! Sage asks they rotate, but will drop block. #nycga

Next, White Hat. “I understand the issue in there being an explosion of groups” — proposers state again that’s not the concern. #nycga #ows

White Hat continues. “The problem is making a requirement of being on website in some form as condition for getting funding from GA…”

Cont’d: “..or a GA-related activity. Whether it’s on the website or not is a nonissue.” Thinks groups should be able to be public. #nycga

Proposers ask if they could add a way to report directly to GA; White Hat thinks they should take site out of proposal. #nycga #ows

A: “We really can’t do that.” OK, so that one holds. #nycga #ows

OK, Nan’s block. “Anyone who has a website at nycga.net, takes the time to register group, create email, all that stuff…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…go to the GA, make an announcement, then set up on site, so you can get $100… it’s an ethical thing, so groups…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…that spend all this time to set up the website.” Appeals to our dislike of “Uncle Sam”, “IRS.” #nycga #ows

A: “All I can do is reiterate that this process takes approximately 15 minutes. Second, in addition to us taking responsibility for…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…getting handwritten minutes up on the website” — Nan: “Why are you talking about minutes?” A: “It’s part of the proposal.”#nycga

Robert: “I’d like the group to remember that all the power in #OWS belongs to the group of ppl. And that the group has all the right…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…and authority to decide when it’s being approved.” Stairs asks what the POP is; he says the block is illegitimate. #nycga #ows

RT @TesselizaTC: Discussing proposal 2streamline wgs @owsnycLIVE (livestream.com/owsnyc) @DiceyTroop @OWSLivestream @Dwayne_wins @OWS_Li …

One more block, Freddy. “My only concern is that physical people aren’t easy to find. If I was using a device or email or picking..” #nycga

Cont’d: “…up a phone, where can I find out where working groups meeting? If pt ppl could maybe work together to keep each other informed…”

Cont’d: “…so that ppl can answer questions about other working groups?” #nycga #ows

A: “That’s the heart of this proposal. That’s a beautiful restatement of why we have this proposal; we want the info to be available…”

Cont’d: “…to everyone.” So he gives up his block. #nycga #ows

Stairs: “There are 2 blocks that came after the blocks were called; we let everyone express and ask for fixes; 2 still stand.” #nycga

OK, so there are 13 no votes. Currently doing a headcount to determine whether there are at least 117 ppl here. #nycga #ows

Oh, snap. Proposers are talking about whether they want to table the proposal. They were upset by some of the negativity… #nycga #ows

OK, so we did a headcount. As often happens, the number against dropped when people realized they’d actually block the proposal…

…so the total result is 119 total people, 11 ppl against. Sm confusion as usual w/ the count, but it passes. MODIFIED CONSENSUS! #nycga #OWS

We were identifying the 2 ppl who dropped opposition, and then a third stood up to retract their no vote. #nycsc #ows

Stairs: “It was expressed to us that once people really understood the proposal, they decided their vote against was premature.” #nycga #ows

3 no’s recanted. RT @RJAlvarez: @LibertySqGA3 people are complicating the math. 13/119 > 10%, so proposal should have failed.

OK, moving on. Stairs: “We’d like to move on, bt tht was really intense, so if we all could take a couple of breaths, that’d be good.”#nycga

Next, laundry reimbursement. Proposer: “I came to SIS and asked how I could help, they were like, ‘we have all this laundry!’”#nycga

Cont’d: “So I did them; they’ve been washed, they’re ready to go for a month. Someone said they’d take care of the accounting…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…but then he left and the raid happened. So cleaners are still looking for $916 to pay the bill so that I’m not personally…”

Cont’d: “…responsible to pay bill w/ money I don’t have because I stepped up for SIS.” #nycga #ows

Opening CQ stack: “We had an emergency laundry proposal 2.5 weeks before the raid; tons of money was allocated. It all went to the…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…laundry place that nite.” A: “On the receipt it’ll say the date; they haven’t mailed it to me, bt it’s really close to SIS.”#nycga

Cont’d: “The money — I don’t even want to see it. You can pay it directly to Rafael laundry. And then you can get all these clothes.”#nycga

Comfort: “Talk to comfort! We have $ for laundry already. And you’re not talking about clothes already in SIS?” #nycga #ows

A: “No; it’s already washed, it’s been sitting in the laundromat, cleaned, done, sitting there, and they call me directly b/c the person…”

Cont’d: “…who was taking care of accounting bailed, left, went to Paris.” CQ: “Who is that?” A: “Brian.” #nycga #ows

Next, Shane. “I guess mine was already somewhat answered; I was going to ask if you’ve already talked to SIS to ask if there’s a laundry..”

Cont’d: “…budget.” A: “I’ve been working w/ SIS; but they can’t pay because they only get the $100/day.” #nycga #ows

@OWSLibrary yes, it did!

Nan’s CQ: “The laundry whatever, you should have asked how much it would cost before making that decision, now you’ve got yourself…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…in deep shit-water, since you should have brought it to GA yourself, so I don’t think we should pay for it.” #nycga #ows

POP: “This is a time for clarifying questions.” Nan: “OK, let me rephrase your process because you’re so concerned about it…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…why didn’t you go to GA first?” A: “I showed up, someone asked me to do it. As a volunteer, I didn’t know what the process was…”

Cont’d: “…or the steps. I went to take care of the payment, and then someone said, ‘you’re not SIS, let them deal with it.’” #nycga #ows

Eventually, someone pointed her to the GA. Comfort again: “I’m not sure it matters what happened because comfort can reimburse you for it.”

OK, great! So they’re going to table the proposal, work offline. Sage *really* wants to continue in case solution w/ comfort doesn’t work.

@RJAlvarez no problem, thanks for holding us accountable from home. much appreciated.

Stairs: “We have one more proposal tonight, and we have a little more than 30 minutes.” This proposal is time-sensitive. #nycga #ows

Proposers: “Thank you so much to DA for tabling your proposal so we could bring this one. Much appreciated.” #nycga #ows

“I’m Kathryn; I’m from a working group called OccupyDignity!” Holding 24-hour vigil on Christmas to provide “comfort and solace”… #nycga

Cont’d: “…to those who are left alone on holiday and those who object to our cultural practice of Christmas.” #nycga #ows

Here’s the text for this one: http://t.co/gd2CKU3T #nycga #ows

OK, stacking up CQs. “How can you have a multi-faith celebration of Christmas?” #nycga #ows

A: “As a Christian, I’d like all faiths to collaborate with me in celebrating Christmas.” Notes it was stolen by Christians. #nycga #ows

A cont’d: “I don’t like Christmas, because it’s called Christ Mas, but I think it should be about behaving a heck of a lot better.” #nycga

Nan’s CQ: “I love the idea that you want to have christmas, but do you know others don’t celebrate christmas?” #nycga #ows

A: “Yes; I won’t be celebrating Christmas; I’ll be fasting, more of a prayer vigil for me. It’s for those who choose not to participate…”

Cont’d: “…in the traditional way.” Next, Freddy. “My understanding of Thanksgiving Day was there was more food than occupiers…” #nycga

@stanleyrogouski word, i think that’s what they’re getting at here for sure.

Cont’d: “…and there was donated food — has the issue been dealt with? Such a big food budget.” #nycga #ows

A: Food budget is 25% as big, & we’re trying to get Brookfield to open the barricades on xmas to increase number of ppl present. #nycga #ows

CQ Razor: “I am highly confused by this. Why does a celebration prioritizing relationships over commerce cost $7500?” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “I didn’t know T-day budget was $20,000.” Proposer: “Yeah, neither did I.” “I think it’s awesome what you’re trying to do, but…”

Cont’d: “…I don’t understand spending this money when we can dumpster dive, this is everything we’re fighting in corporate America,”#nycga

Cont’d: “In Corporate America we’re fighting big parties and bonuses at Christmastime. Why are we spending $7500 on a party when…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…occupiers are sleeping in McDonald’s?” A :”We’re open to friendly amendments; we’d much rather have people come forward to cook…”

Cont’d: “…but we’re a small group and are working very hard to make it happen. We thought kitchen would help w/ food, but they can’t.”#nycga

He notes that the $20,000 Thanksgiving budget was actually not paid for by us, it was paid for by a union. That’s a relief. #nycga #ows

Razor doesn’t understand just about every detail of this problem. Proposer doesn’t understand why she can’t hear that they’re into FAs.

“This isn’t our christmas, it’s yours. If you want to remove water, we can remove water. If you want to remove decorations, let’s do that.”

Cont’d: “If you can dumpster dive me enough water for people staying in the park 24 hours, I’ll be your best friend!” #nycga

Cont’d: “So there’s no reason to be so contentious; we can remove everything on this list if you want. I’m doing this to help people…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…and I’m with you!” Next, someone says dumpster diving christmas reminds him of Tiny Tim? #nycga #ows

Next, Cont’d: “We need to be looking at raising funds. $10 a meal in bulk is sort of ridiculous, should be closer to $3-4.” #nycga

A: “It’s $10/plate because it’s christmas; people charge more. But any number we don’t spend will go back; if you can help save, great…”

Cont’d: “…but we’ve been busy negotiating for use of park, and looping in faith groups, etc, so we’re behind schedule on this.” #nycga

Cont’d: “So, if we can have this budget passed, and then people get involved, then they can save money and we’ll spend less.” #nycga

Cont’d: “The person that can dumpster-dive water, saves the water budget. Whoever gets a $4 meal on Xmas day, great! I don’t know where!”

Cont’d: “If you want to block this money, block this $. We don’t have time for 15 CQs; we have time to make a fuckin’ awesome christmas!”

“Sorry about the f-word, I get like that.” Hahah. Someone points out Christmas is historically Pagan. #nycga #ows

David: “I felt the need to clarify what I think this is about. I’m obviously not Christian…” (David is very Jewish) “But I know…” #nycga

“…Christmastime is the time when those w/o families or are homeless, it’s the most painful time of the year. Those without relationships…”

Cont’d: “…have no one to feel whole with. And I think that’s what this is about.” #nycga #ows

So, Stairs are asking if we want to spare 5 more minutes for this proposal. “We don’t feel good about it; do we have any blocks?” #nycga

Robert objects: “This is a perversion of process.” But Stairs asserts [Ed: correctly] that this is what happens when time is not extended.

There are 3 blocks: Razor, Robert and someone else. Someone asks if it would ruin the plan if we waited til Thursday’s GA. #nycga #ows

A: “Christmas is on Sunday, so if we accept this today, it’s a backup plan, and we can start being creative and less stressed..”

Cont’d: “…but if we don’t pass it, and no one comes forward to help, there’s no Christmas dinner. So that’s pretty severe.” #nycga #ows

Some contention. Someone: “I think Christmas is hard for many ppl; we need to do something to support them. Can’t wait til New Years’…”

Cont’d: “…what if someone is really down at Christmas? We need to support them!” #nycga #ows

Stairs will push forward to blocks. “We’re going forward; people have blocks.” Nan, Razor, Robert, who else? #nycga #ows

Razor’s block: “We could have planned this before; we don’t need to bring it at last minute and make ppl feel guilty.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “Also, the chronically homeless are not in this room. I can speak to that.” “I personally resent ppl who are not homeless saying..”

Cont’d: “…that this is for the homeless. This is how money gets wasted throughout the world; ppl throw a party for the little ppl but..”

Cont’d: “..the little people need housing!” #nycga #ows

Stairs gets consensus to step out of process. Apparently 56 walker gave us more time in this space! Rad, so we can do this convo justice.

Lou from 56 Walker: “We’re really glad to have #OWS in this space. We’ve had SC for a few weeks, first time with GA; we’re part of #OWS…”

Cont’d: “…and we’re glad to have you here. For this Thursday, we had previously scheduled a meeting w/ the NLG, which has been repping…”

Cont’d: “…protesters who’ve been arrested. Moved it earlier, so space is available at 8.” Want to know if we can shift GA 1 hr later Thurs.

“So, we could move GA to 8-11:30 or later.” We want to know what his preference is. Nan notes that folks have to leave to go to churches…

Cont’d: ..at a certain time. Stairs notes that this time change has already been announced. Lou asks, “if we start an hour late…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…and end an hour late, what’s the temperature reading on that?” Nathan steps in to help. I think that’s the plan, 8pm Thurs. #nycga

So, given that we have a little bit, Nathan is asking if we want to continue the Christmas conversation for 10 more minutes. #nycga #ows

OK, so back to Razor’s concerns. Proposers say it’s really hard to get in touch with Kitchen b/c they’re so busy cooking. #nycga #ows

“It’s a really time-consuming process to get in touch w/ the right person to talk to, and get a call back.” #nycga #ows

Also, “we can amend to take out the decorations,” but want to keep Metrocard $ b/c many services will be shut down. #nycga #ows

“I don’t think you realize how many ppl are leaving; we’re having trouble finding ppl to livestream,” etc. #nycga #ows

“And it’s not about looking after the little person, it’s abt looking after the movement. We don’t want it to stop on Christmas Day.”#nycga

Razor wants to a direct response, but facilitation step in to be like “no, sorry” (we generally don’t do direct responses). #nycga #ows

Proposers spoke to next stackee, Jill, before she bounced, and plan to heed her request to get donations of warm clothes, etc. #nycga #ows

Joseph points out that extra layers can make a huge difference– dress pants under jeans “can keep you warm.” #nycga #ows

Someone asks (as usual) how much money we have; it’s about $275,000 “liquid” cash on hand. #nycga #ows

Proposers note that they’d really prefer to keep water and energy bars, which they consider “basic survival stuff,” but are open to discuss.

Medical lets them know, if they get extra water, “Medical Clinic will take it because we’re always short on water.” #nycga #ows

OK, now opening Concerns stack. Freddy: “My concern is the media coverage would justify the cost of the party, b/c donations to #OWS…”

Cont’d: “…correspond to direct actions and events. If we don’t do anything, it’ll look like movement is dying off.” #nycga #ows

Next: “Perspective plays into certain statements made, like, how does a homeless person look? Homelessness does not discriminate…”

Cont’d: “…there could be lots of homeless people here. It’s what you do with those…” Razor objects, but she continues: “My concern…”

Cont’d: “…is with this not moving forward, inclusively. We want to be productive, inviting, and inclusive, healing.” #nycga #ows

Says we can provide somewhere for people to heal, restore themselves. “You never know what a chronically homeless person might need.” #nycga

Sebastian (proposer) agrees with Razor’s general objections about how we spend money, but it takes time to get the perfect option…

Cont’d: “…and next year, everyone can get involved and we’ll have the perfect Christmas for free. But this year, we’re running out of time.”

“We’ve just got a few days, so let’s just make it happen so ppl cn be included, regardless of whether we did it the right way or wrong way.”

Zack’s concern is that we’re spending money on “party sorts of things” when the money was presumably intended to make political statements.

Cont’d: “I’m not prepared to block this proposal, but I am a little concerned about this much of our limited money being spent on..”

Cont’d: “…Christmas, when we might want to do more a little later on and not have any money left.” #nycga #ows

A: “I have to maintain my posture that this is a prayer vigil; this is a protest. ACLU wrote letter to Bloomberg and Brookfield: why can’t..

Cont’d: “…we bring a guitar in and sing Christmas Carols in a public space? This is a political action. There are a lot of ppl working on…

Cont’d: “…very political issues about whether we can bring our mats, food, instruments.” “I wouldn’t live in a park for 5 weeks if it…”

Cont’d: “…wasn’t a political action. And I wouldn’t spend Christmas Day on my knees praying if it wasn’t political as well as spiritual…”

Cont’d: “…because I’m an *activist*.” Applause! #nycga #ows

There are 8 ppl on stack. Yikes. Stairs: “I’d like to encourage self-regulation of these concerns.” No disrespect, but be concise. #nycga

Polly: “My concern in general is that when we call ourselves a group, we call ourselves a family, and a movement, that deals w/ a lot of..”

Cont’d: “…social issues. Everyone’s coming together for one specific purpose. As somebody from the medical field, I have to ask why…”

Cont’d: “…we’re not worried about morale. It’s important in everything you do; morale is a part of health. So, my concern is, why aren’t..”

Cont’d: “..we looking at it like that? This isn’t a party; this is for the people like me who’ve been here for the last 3 months.”

Also speaks strongly in favor of Sebatian. “He’s worked hard and he’s really a standup guy.” #nycga #ows

Someone notes that they like this, but the budget is a problem. A: “I wish we didn’t have this $ at all…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…if we didn’t have it, then kitchen wouldn’t say ‘go to catering’, it’d be do or die.” #nycga #ows

Kyle’s concern: “It should be Interfaith Day.” A: “It is.” Stairs: “He’s willing to change the name.” A: “From now on, no one has to say…”

Cont’d: “…the word Christmas.” But he will continue to do so because that’s what he’s doing. #nycga #ows

Next C: “I’m from Turkey; there may be Muslims in this movement; when you say Christmas and call it prayer, it feels like Christians are…”

Cont’d: “…dominating.” A: “I’m very sorry about that. But I need to keep saying to lawyers, I’m a Christian and need to celebrate in my way.

Cont’d: “The only reason it says Christmas on the flier is because we’re reaching a mass audience.” #nycga #ows

Stairs notes, “It’s almost 11:00 and we’ve still got this many people at GA; I’d say that speaks well for moving it inside.” #yncga #ows

Stairs is trying to wrap, so we’ll roll Friendly Amendments into rest of the Concerns stack, since they flow together. #nycga #ows

Sebastian: “We’ve got Muslims involved in planning as well, but we want people of all faiths involved.” #nycga #ows

Connor: “I see the growth of #OWS came out of large symbolic acts, so although focusing on Christmas is a little strange, expressing…”

Cont’d: “…our egalitarian principles on this day, we can reach out and show people where our hearts really are.” #nycga #ows

Justin is concerned about the price. “But I see all these ppl saying they’ll step up, w/ ideas of how, so, we’re supposed to function as…”

Cont’d: “…a community and get things done.” Ppl taking issue should step up to help “reduce cost to bare essentials, a couple thou maybe.”

Cont’d: “Homeless folks could dumpster dive, and bring that. Maybe ppl would appreciate a label for various reasons, but…” #nycga #ows

Sebastian: “We’ve been told we have to leave, everyone put your hands up and we’ll have Christmas! … Passed thanks.” Ha. #nycga #ows

Stairs: “Point of information, management says we have to leave. Personally, I’m exhausted. This is a new thing for us having GA indoors…”

Cont’d: “…we really tried to make the time constraints known to all, they gave us extra time, but now we have to leave.” #nycga #ows

Stairs: “Sorry, it’s the first time; next time we’ll do better!” #nycga #ows

BUT ACTUALLY THIS WAS AN AWESOME GA! Thanks everyone! Seriously, being inside rules. I hope anyone annoyed by cold GAs comes back. #nycga

Anyone has questions, concerns, comments, hit me up @diceytroop. Thanks fam! #nycga #ows

RT @OccupyWallStNYC: How’s everyone over at the @OccupiedHouse? Any #needsoftheoccupiers?

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