Tweets for Thu, 09 Feb 2012

Posted by & filed under Livetweets.

I’m here at the GA in 60 Wall! Follow here, @LibertySqGA2, @LibertySqGA3, and @LibertySQGA4 for livetweets. #nycga #ows

Nan put together tonight’s facilitation team and is apparently facilitating with Damien. Folks are objecting. #nycga #ows

Nan made to proceed with announcements; but folks are protesting. “I’ve been waiting on minutes for 20 minutes!” #nycga #ows

Minutes: “We’re not your secretary, Nan.” Nan: “That’s your job. You’re supposed to take minutes.” I think Stan will facilitate. #nycga #ows

Someone else who’s taken the “Intro to Direct Democracy” workshop is stepping up to facilitate for first time. #nycga #ows

So, we’re starting with reportbacks; Nan’s first, tells us that Newark has an eviction deadline now. #nycga #ows

Alternative Banking WG has first reportback: “We’ve been meeting since the early days of #Occupy. We’re now the Occupy Bank.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “Next week we’ll issue a press release; our plan is to establish an Occupy Bank.” Democratic, owned by depositors… #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…and accessible to everyone, particularly the poor.” Would be transparent. “If we can change banking, we can change the economy.”

Cont’d: They are wondering if there are any banks that want to partner with them. “We’re ready to enter into talks with any bank that…”

Cont’d: “…would uphold these values,” to eventually transform the banking industry. #nycga #ows

Nick, #OccupyTheSEC: “We’re having a march Saturday” against the Fed. 4:00 to 4:30, rally at Liberty Sq. 5pm, march to Fed and rally. #OWS

Joseph, Picture the Homeless. “Tomorrow, will be 2 yrs since put fwd bill” that would force city to do vacant property count yearly. #nycga

PtH “did a property count last summer, released last Thurs at Hunter College.” Found more vacant homes than homeless people. #nycga #ows

Everyone on City Council supports the bill except Eric Elan and Christine Quinn. March Saturday on Elan’s house, 1288 Decatur Street. #nycga

Cont’d: “If the bill is passed, the city will need to do a vacant property count each year,” and communities will decide what to do w/ them.

Cont’d: “We have a lot of people who are working and homeless, b/c the rent is so high.” More info: picturethehomeless.org . #nycga #ows

This Sat, march on Eric Elan’s house. Next Saturday, march on Christine Quinn’s house. picturethehomeless.org for more info. #nycga #ows

Fundraiser Hub had its first meeting recently. Saturday, 5:30, for next meeting. “We have many different plans starting this Saturday.”

FunHub will have a fair 10am at Zuccotti this Saturday, then move to West Park Presbyterian. “Bring all your friends, family!” #nycga

Sorry, the FunHub (Fundraiser Hub) meeting is 5:30 tomorrow, not Saturday. #nycga #ows

Lauren, Minutes: “When Minutes first started, it was a verbatim account of what happened at meeting in real time.” In last month, Minutes…

Cont’d: “…has realized that is not minutes, that’s transcription.” Minutes will now be a summary of the meeting and what happened. #nycga

Minutes will now post the summary within 24 hours onto the website, and post audio recordings onto site so Internet folks can transcribe.

Rich, Vision and Goals, as working group reportbacks continue. “We were here on the 24th seeking consensus on a vision statement…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…we didn’t quite make it then, but we’re working on it and hope to be back soon.” #nycga #ows

Next: “At Occupy Town Square, we’ll have Frank Morales have a workshop on how to squat.” OTS is at West Park Presbyterian, Sat, 1pm. #nycga

Now, our first proposal. “I want to just propose the idea of having a fundraising working group. The fundraising WG is not similar…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…to the FunHub working group; the Fundraising Working Group would mostly be on the computer and fundraising w/ a program..”

Cont’d: “…developed by TechOps.” Would hire a freelance fundraiser to help raise funds, and seek capital and non-capital investments.

Cont’d: “This would be good for fundraising individual groups as well as OWS on the main.” Will have donor lists, send out mailers. #nycga

Lady asks Isaac from TechOps to explain CVCRM: “CRM is Constituent Relationship Manager,” helps you categorize and sort ppl you know. #nycga

It lets you tailor your outreach and “keep track in a systematic way.” Lady wants to present a different proposal, but it needs to go thru..

Cont’d: …Spokescouncil, so they need to be ratified as a working group at GA before they can go to Spokescouncil. #nycga #ows

Good looking out fam. :D @CyMadD0x: @LibertySqGA *ahem* that’s *CiviCRM*

OK, stacking up CQs. Nan’s CQ: “First of all, I applaud you for taking the initiative to do this. But did you talk to other WGs who…”

Cont’d: “…might be doing the same thing as you?” A: “Anyone can join the working groups. It’s not about leaving anybody out.” #nycga #ows

CQ: “I thought GA is the supreme authority. Why do you have to go to Spokescouncil?” POI: “There is no supreme authority in #OWS.” #nycga

Questioner is unhappy with that answer. Lady notes that the proposal in question isn’t the one on the table; she just wants her WG. #nycga

Yuri from FunHub asks Lady why she is making a new working group instead of working with FunHub. Lady: “It’s not about not working w…”

Cont’d: “…FunHub,” it’s about doing something with a different focus. “Everyone here can work together or not work together.” #nycga

CQ, actually 2 concerns: “Why aren’t you working with FunHub? And also hiring a professional is more $ to spend.” Stairs PoPs: not a CQ.

Lisa’s CQ: “What led you to decide the WG that was existant was not going to fulfill the kind of mission you wanted to, and will you…”

Cont’d: “..always hire outside help rather than using all the resources within?” Lady points to her collaboration w/ TechOps… #nycga

Cont’d: …and re: FunHub. “They’re creating arts and crafts in this working group.” PoI: “That’s 1 part of FunHub. We also do fundraising.”

Lady: “The art part is not something I want to be associated with.” Yuri is offended, says so while gesticulating w/ his wire art at Lady.

CQ: What are you going to do? Lady says they want to have theme parties, highlight positives of OWS, combat silly bad press. #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “We need as much news broadcasting as possible, as positive as possible, so we can grow in Spring and Summer.” #nycga #ows

Isaac’s CQ: “Are there other people involved?” A: “We had a mtg Sunday; there’s more ppl involved, and I talked to other WGs and…”

Cont’d: “…they want to get involved in it. We meet every Sunday at 7.” #nycga #ows

Sumumba’s CQ: “How would you work w/ Accounting re: all of this? And you said you’d help w/ phone charges?” Haha. Missed that. #nycga #ows

Lady: “In order to do all this work, we need space, we need phones.” Want space, phones, eq to be donated. Not asking $ frm OWS. #nycga #ows

Sumumba asks if she’d be willing to work with FunHub if this doesn’t pass. Lady: “I think sometimes personalities don’t work well together.”

RE: accounting: “The money would go directly into accounting through the Civi system.” #nycga #ows

Lopi’s CQ: “For this website, is there going to be a timebank involved, where people can do volunteer work into the system?” #nycga #ows

Lady: Yes. Also points to the Permabank project, which will accept in-kind donations. #nycga #ows

Lopi’s CQ #2: “Is it kind of like Kickstarter?” Lady: “The answer is yes.” Stairs notes there are 3 mins left, asks to extend for 10? Aye.

Lopi: “So can #OWS projects and WGs post projects on the website and get funding directly for their projects?” A: “Yes, and this would…”

Cont’d: “…be after the Spokes or the GA accepts your project — doesn’t have to be funding, but just your project.” #nycga #ows

Lopi: “Is it very different than FunHub?” A: “Yes. It’s very different.” It’s event-focused. This is more CRM? #nycga #ows

CQ: “TechOps has a lot of ppl w/ a lot of skills; coming from a different place. Organizing us technologically. We’ve got a lot of…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…grassroots groups, who don’t have housing, and all that.” Notes TechOps moves super fast. She thinks that’s top down. [...-Ed.]

Someone asks if FunHub was informed and she tried to work with them. “It wasn’t brought up to FunHub. I went around to working groups..”

Cont’d: “…and FunHub might even block this proposal.” [Yuri does look like he's ready to go with the block. -Ed.] #nycga #ows

Nan’s first on the Concerns stack. Her concern is that other people might want to block Lady’s proposal. #nycga #ows

Next concern is from someone else in FunHub. She says they are trying to get funding for people to get in homes, not more technology. #nycga

Yuri’s concern: “You said you’re the opposite of FunHub; but we’re an idea group. You have an idea. We’re fundraising consultants.” #nycga

Cont’d: “This sounds like you’re trying to branch off and be a leader in a working group rather than community-based.” #nycga #ows

Lopi PoPs: “This proposal is not about FunHub; it’s about proposing a new working group, the fundraising working group.” #nycga #ows

Next, Lopi’s concern. “My concern is that ppl are not understanding the full scope of what this working group can do…” #nycga #ows

Lady: “The full scope is to create more bonds within – Finance became Accounting; they didn’t want to Finance anything, they wanted…”

Cont’d: “…to become the Accounting of the group.” So Fundraising will step in to do what they can’t, throw parties, events, get those..

Cont’d: …outside of the #OWS community to help. “I don’t want to use big names, but people want to work with us, but they…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…are very wary of our style of working.” Intend to make it easier w/ a process for funding and via friendly events. #nycga #ows

Only a few minutes left on the clock; Stairs temp-checks 5 more minutes. “I see only ups — not too many, but no downs.” #nycga #ows

Frank’s concern: “You’ve got 2 fundraising working groups.” Jill: “I don’t think we can prevent progress, but there is so many…”

Cont’d: “…resources going to TechOps.” She’s in TechOps, she says? [There's no resources in this proposal at all. -Ed.] #nycga #ows

OK, friendly amendments now. Lisa’s FA: “Can you change your name?” Crowd ponders another name, nothing quickly forthcoming. #nycga #ows

Someone from TechOps has a FA: “Let’s strike the 7%” from funds raised that go into fundraising infrastructure in the proposal. #nycga #ows

Lady clarifies the 7% only applies to funds raised by outside fundraiser. She’s deciding whether to accept the amendment, is concerned…

Cont’d: ..about funding supplies. Someone from TechOps points out that they haven’t quite consensed on CiviCRM. #nycga #ows

So, after it became clear that the 7% fundraising specifics were a part of the Working Group establishment proposal, this was questioned…

Cont’d: …as a point of process. “I have issues with your new working group proposal being combined with essentially yr WG’s first prop.”

So, that becomes a friendly amendment somehow, & the proposal is simplified to essentially just establishing the working group. #nycga #ows

OK, we’re moving to consensus on this proposal. Any standasides? No. Any blocks? Yuri blocks. “It’s exactly the same as FunHub.” #nycga #ows

Yuri feels it’s going to “wipe out a group already in existence.” #nycga #ows

Nan PoPs: “A block has to be a moral, ethical, or saf– ” Can’t hear her finish as entire General Assembly erupts in laughter! #nycga #ows

Lopi’s POP: “Sir, I request that you set your ego aside. A block is supposed to be movement-wide concerns.” #nycga #ows

Nick is also blocking. “Yuri tried to invite you to his fundraising group.” Lady: “WGs should be able to work together on a personal level.”

Cont’d: “It’s not a concern about… anybody is invited to the working group.” Next block is that Lady has pushed ppl away from grp. #nycga

Lady addresses. “That was an affinity group; that’s very different from a working group.” Drew proposes we table proposal; Lady wants to…

Cont’d: …move to modified consensus, which means a 9/10ths majority must vote in favor of the proposal. #nycga #ows

OK, Lady tables the proposal, instead of moving to modified consensus. Moving onto next two proposals from TechOps. #nycga #ows

TechOps’ proposal is to “make an amendment to the Principles of Solidarity to change language which certain members…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…of TechOps found problematic.” Stallman from the free software movement got in touch and suggested instead of “open source”…

Cont’d: …we should embrace “free” software instead. Stallman says “open source” is a right-wing effort to undermine “free.” #nycga #ows

Here’s the proposal, which contains text of change to #OWS Principles of Solidarity. http://t.co/OU9neECo #nycga

Part 2 of the TechOps proposal is to put documents into a version control system, so that changes won’t obscure original versions. #nycga

Drew: “What this also allows us to do is to offer this tool to other occupations,” notes that many other occupations adopted our Declaration

Cont’d: “This version control system would allow them to start with our version, make a new fork, & then change it as they see fit.” #nycga

Cont’d: “They can change them how they wish, and the connection is still apparent — is traceable. It’d be really neat.” #nycga #ows

Time for clarifying questions! Someone asks if this would cause documents to change more. A: No, changes would still come through the GA.

A cont’d: “This is just a more sophisticated way of tracking changes.” Jean’s CQ: “If we have a document, and someone in California…”

Cont’d: “…wants to change it? So TechOps would change that?” No, “we’d start with version 1. We’d make a change — that’s version 2…”

Cont’d: What other occupations would do is take our version, “make changes, then store as *their* version 1.” #nycga #ows

CQ: “I use Linux a lot. That’s open source. What would replace it?” A: “To be clear, Linux is free. The point of the amendment…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…is to better reflect the philosophy behind GNU/Linux.” That “not only can you see the Internals, you are also free…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…to modify them, as in Linux.” Notes that Google API is “open source”, but you have no license to change it. #nycga #ows

CQ: “How will it be transparent to readers online what version this is on the website?” A: “There’s nothing specifically about that…”

Cont’d: “…in the proposal, I imagine the site would reference the Principles of Solidarity; current version would come up.” #nycga #ows

Questioner asks if the original version would still show up. A: “If they go to the version control system, they could see both.” #nycga #ows

Drew (TechOps): “Right now, any administrator of the website could go in and change a word, and it wouldn’t be apparent to anyone…” #nycga

Cont’d: “..who comes to visit our site. We feel secure that wouldn’t happen (There are records), but this makes it impossible to change…”

Cont’d: “…the document, in this system, without that change being reflected.” “If there’s any tomfoolery, not only can the admin see it..”

Cont’d: “…but anyone in the world can say, “oh, they changed it, and I’m looking at the minutes, and no one ever consensed on that.”"

Lopi’s CQ: “Would you say this system is somewhat of a reference library for showing any changes in documents we’ve consensed on?” #nycga

A: Yes — it’s a reference tool. Nan’s CQ/Concern: “If we allowed you to make any kind of change down the road, another group…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…might want to make a change, and a change, and we might lose all the solidarity for the movement.” #nycga #ows

TechOps responds, noting that they have no current plans to make other changes, but feel we should be open to changes. #nycga #ows

Again, TechOps explains the history of this proposal, that Stallman suggested the language was problematic. #nycga #ows

CQ: “Will this help with transparency?” A: “Very much. It will make a clear place where all docs are available, and changes will be marked.”

Next two CQs both seek to clarify that the original versions will be preserved unchanged. Yes; that’s what the system is for. #nycga #ows

Next CQ: “Is this like a copyright so you could claim it as intellectual property at some point and make $?” A: “No. It doesn’t affect..”

Cont’d: “…the license or copyright at all.” They note that there is no licensing for docs on website. #nycga #ows

“In this particular regard, this proposal does not affect the license” for docs, which belong to the #NYCGA. #OWS

OK, that’s it for clarifying questions. Let’s move to concerns. Rich: “My concern is that, first, I understand need for GA approval…”

Cont’d: “…of language change,” but why do we even need to rule on versioning? “Seems like routine technical matter ppl just do.” #nycga

A: “You’re right; it could be done, but we want to do it with consent of GA so it can be the *official* repository of our docs.” #nycga #ows

OK, no more concerns. Friendly Amendments? None. OK, TechOps will restate the proposal. #nycga #ows

TechOps: “The phrase “Endeavoring to practice and support wide application of open-source,” would become “Making technologies, knowledge..”

Cont’d: “…and culture open to all to freely access, create, modify, and continue.” Then, version control. #nycga #ows

OK, moving to consensus. Any blocks? Yes, Nan blocks because she really likes the Principles of Solidarity the way that it is. #nycga #ows

Lopi’s POI: “I understand your concern, Nan, but if you go online it says the Principles of Solidarity is a living document.” #nycga #ows

TechOps responds to the block: “I think we just need to trust that the GA will block bad amendments,” not block this good 1 b/c of concern.

Nan thanks them, and says she’ll lift her block, as long as Tech can do something to make sure bad changes cannot happen. #nycga #ows

Drew says they can accept that but only because it’s already built in. People can bring proposals to GA to reverse bad changes. #nycga #ows

Nan notes that she doesn’t trust working groups because “you guys bring all your friends and you push things through.” [Yikes. -Ed.] #nycga

Drew says he agrees, “people can just get people to come,” it only takes 10% to block, notes it’s unfair to TechOps to block b/c… #nycga

Cont’d: “…the system is open to manipulation.” Stairs notes that Nan is trying to make a second friendly amendment. #nycga #ows

Nan’s second friendly amendment, to be clear, is to give people online 10% ability to block changes. Lopi notes this is a separate proposal.

Nan notes that TechOps accepted the friendly amendment. “Since you accepted it, and Drew you always work with me, I lift my block.” #nycga

[Sometimes I feel scared that tweeting Nan's behavior might give ppl impression that her blocks are appropriate. They're the opposite. -Ed.]

OK! We’ve reached consensus on the first component of the proposal: TechOps makes 1st change since original Principles of Solidarity. #nycga

Next, we also reach consensus on moving #OWS docs into a version control system! No blocks. Full consensus! #nycga #ows

OK! Whew. The next proposal is also from TechOps, but it’s an “emergency proposal because” it regards a day of action Saturday. #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “Truthfully, it should have been known in advance, which should rule out from emergency proposal.” But hopes we’ll be lenient.

The TechOps emergency prop is to write a response to ACTA. “It’s like SOPA, which would censor the Internet, but on a global scale.” #nycga

Stairs tempchecks whether we want to hear the proposal. “One downtwinkle; we have 15 minutes left, so we’ll give this 15 minutes.” #nycga

TechOps: “A few of us wrote a statement…” Can’t get it up on his phone. Nan: “And you guys are supposed to be TechOps? Come on!” #nycga

TechOps still having a hard time pulling it up; Nan still giving them flak for it. Here we go! “Proposal to denounce ACTA. We propose the..”

Cont’d: “…take a public stand against ACTA.” Would affect laws of most developed nations including countries not involved in negotiations.

ACTA: Negotiations took place behind closed doors. It’s worse than SOPA and extends across world. “We should all be very…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…worried about ACTA and other trade agreements on the world economy.” Affects health and well-being of global poor, enforces…

Cont’d: …seed patents, threatens right to privacy and freedom by forcing ISPs to act as Internet police, bans sampling, discussions…

Cont’d: …on ACTA remains secret except for leaks; was started by Bush but was passed under Obama w/o need for Senate confirmation?? #nycga

Now stacking up CQs. Nan’s first. “I’m trying to understand- it’s wonderful to hear you read it, but I’m confused, what exactly…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…you want us to do? You want to do a Day of Action; we have DA to do that?” A: “It’s not the DoA; that’s not us. We want…”

Cont’d: “..to pass this statement and put our names on it to show solidarity” with the Day of Action around the world. #nycga #ows

CQ: “What was that about intellectual properties?” A: “ACTA would make it virtually illegal, basically, to remix. You couldn’t take…”

Cont’d: “..a copyrighted work of information, mash it up with something else, and call it a new work of art.” #nycga #ows

ACTA questions continued: “So you couldn’t sample?” A: “Correct, they’re basically trying to kill hiphop.” BOOOOO. #nycga #ows

Nan: “I think that’s a great thing to do, because artists are losing all this money with the free downloads, it’s good to crack down.”#nycga

Oooh. TechOps responds: “That’s just one of the aspects,” but maintains that it’s a limitation on creativity, not piracy. #nycga #ows

CQ: “What else besides killing hiphop?” A: “I think the scariest thing is that it makes it illegal for ISPs around the world to not…”

Cont’d: “…track everything their users access.” It also gives rightsholders the right to enforce drug patents themselves. #nycga #ows

TechOps: “ACTA essentially would give Merck the right to seize a ship full of AIDS drugs and destroy it.” #nycga #ows

OK, friendly amendments now. Nan’s FA: “In a way, I agree with part of the ACTA, b/c I’m sick and tired of ppl stealing other people’s..”

Cont’d: “..creativity and work, if I make something, I don’t want someone to take it. Go make your own.” But against drug thing. #nycga #ows

So, her entirely unrelated FA is they put it not just on nycga.net but on other #OWS websites. Daryl says add PR list: sure. #nycga #ows

Next FA is to note that passing it w/o Senate is clearly unconstitutional, wants to add language that says that. #nycga #ows

Proposer also wants Daryl to add to his amendment to let them fix grammar, b/c he just noticed an error and can’t make FA himself. #nycga

Hahah. Daryl agrees to add that to his FA. “You can fix it, just as long as you don’t add any violence.” LULZ? I awno. #nycga #ows

Next FA is to add list of all the other folks that have come out against ACTA, like Free Network Foundation. Accepted. #nycga #ows

OK, so they’ll restate the proposal w/ added amendments. “Our proposal is for the GA to endorse a statement in opposition to…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, which I read, but adding reference to unconstitutionality of US approval, and…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…listing people who’ve already come out against it.” OK. Moving to consensus: any standasides? No. Any blocks? NAN. #nycga #ows

Nan’s block: “I was for it, until you mentioned grammar.” Proposer explains he corrected the grammar as he read it aloud. So not different.

Nan makes him read the proposal aloud again. It’s explained that the grammar changes are very small, like a missing word “the”. #nycga

OK, Nan decides to standaside, and there are no blocks! Stairs: “We have consensus!” YAY. I’ll get that statement for y’all. #nycga #ows

Announcements time! Nan notes that Saturday, she’ll bring her proposal to dissolve the Spokescouncil to the GA, again. #nycga #ows

That’s it for announcements, and for the GA! Thanks fam! Any questions, concerns, comments… aww, you know who it is. #nycga #ows

Here’s a screenshot of TechOps’ stment vs #ACTA, approved by #OWS General Assembly pending addition of minor changes. http://t.co/lsFHrO3e

One Response to “Tweets for Thu, 09 Feb 2012”

  1. Steve Scher

    is it possible that the writer “drewh” does not exist…..that the above post is false?
    i await corroberation one way or the other…….
    but seems like a lot of effort to post a falsehood…….
    so?