Tweets for Sun, 15 Jan 2012

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Hey fam! We’re starting #OWS General Assembly right now at the Atrium at 60 Wall Street. Follow here for livetweets. #nycga

Stairs: “Everyone here knows how this goes, right? So we can skip that?” Hahah. Yeah. Very small grp tonight due to #J15. #nycga #ows

Working group reportbacks! Class War Working Group will meet in the Park at 5pm, Wednesday. #nycga #ows

OccupyFarms: “I’m going up to a farm in VT to work for 2 months; there’s a work-share program. Leaving Wednesday! Let’s get our farm on.”

Facilitation WG: “We’ve passed a proposal to reduce GA and Spokes to 2 meetings a week each, and we’re going to bring it tomorrow to SC.”

OK, moving forward to announcements. No announcements! Oh, Anthony: “I just dropped my fork!” There we go. #nycga #ows

Moving onto proposals. Vision and Goals didn’t show up, so “the only other item we have is to ratify the transportation working grp.”#nycga

Transportation WG! (@TransportOWS) “We’re trying to ratify this WG; we had our first meeting Saturday. Purpose is to facilitate…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…transportation for occupiers and working groups. We’re going to utilize rental services; we have a Google voice # to be a…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…hotline, allowing people to call, and if they give us a headsup we can provide a vehicle or driver to meet the needs of the WG.”

Cont’d: “We would like the GA…” Sage PoPs to suggest we have “three GAs so that everyone here can be involved.” #nycga #ows

Jason responds: “There were 6 people in Liberty Square; we came here 10 minutes ago and went to every group and announced the GA would…”

Cont’d: “…happening here, so I’m trying to figure out why we would need to go over there to them when we already did that.” #nycga #ows

Sage is continuing to pick this bone with Jason, who is Facilitating. Sage: “I’ve tried several times to get your brain to simulate a GA…”

Cont’d: “…where everyone here is involved.” Sage says Jason isn’t trying to understand; Jason seems just to disagree. #nycga #ows

[Context: there's other groups meeting, ppl chatting here in the Atrium; Sage is driving a point that is neither here nor there IMO. -Ed.]

Sage: “Fuck shit shit fuck fuck. How is trying to make it 3 GAs so everyone can participate hijacking?” Sage leaves, here we go. #nycga

Stairs: “What I’d like us to do is go back to this proposal.” So, back to the Transportation WG proposal. Nan is saying that they… #nycga

Cont’d: …are conflicting with another “Transportation WG” that Nan is working with. That was a PoI, but Jason notes it would be a “concern.”

Stairs: “To decide on this proposal, let’s actually hear the proposal.” Invites Transportation to resume after Sage’s interruption. #nycga

Proposer: “The proposal was to create this group I described earlier. I’ll restate so people that came in can hear about it.” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “The proposal was to create a Transportation WG that would provide transportation to working groups and occupiers…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…when and where they need it.” Will have a transportation hotline. “If you call with a couple of hours notice, we’ll show up..”

Cont’d: “…with a vehicle that meets their needs. The goal of bringing this proposal is to have the GA ratify.” Notes they can change WG…

Cont’d: …name for Nan. Nan: “I told you, let’s work together. We don’t need a 2nd group.” Stairs PoPs her, opens clarifying questions stack.

Nan’s CQ: “When you brought the proposal to Spokescouncil, and I said, ‘we’ve been meeting for 3 weeks now,’ we did everything…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…we went to Spokescouncil, we went to GA and I told you you were welcome to work with us.” They meet Wednesday 5pm. #nycga

Nan is retelling her interactions w/ these people. “It’s a huge project and a lot of responsibility; the more people involved, the better.”

Cont’d: “My question is to you: when I went to you with that idea, why did you have to bring it here? You agreed to come to meeting, and..”

Cont’d: “…now you come here and do this.” A: “First, I’m still completely down to work w/ you and your group. Why I came here, to…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…answer your question, is I and a few other ppl had this idea; we thought this was the solution. We have specific things we want..”

Cont’d: “…to do, and a way to do it.” Will still go to her mtg; “if this group is called something else, that doesn’t matter to me.”#nycga

CQ: “GA has a spending freeze right now; what’s the point of doing this? You’ll have no money.” A: “The GA — there’s going to be some…”

Cont’d: “…discussion at spokescouncil tomorrow — I’ve been made aware — the GA only has one power over Spokescouncil, and that’s…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…to dissolve it with a week’s notice. They don’t have the power to stop SC from spending money. That may or may not be true…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…we’ll find out tomorrow.” So CQ says, you want to come to GA for approval, so tomorrow you can go to Spokes and ask for $. #nycga

POI: “RE: spending freeze, Metrocards are excluded from that proposal.” Nan’s POI: “The $ belongs to GA; Spokescouncil took some..” #nycga

Cont’d: “…power from GA, but if the GA’s freezing it, Spokescouncil has no say in it because it’s the GA’s money. Our money.” #nycga #ows

Stairs notes that that relates to something that happened last night and will be discussed at tmrw’s Spokes. “Let’s stick to this proposal.”

CQ: “Who is this for?” A: “I’d prefer to provide transportation to everyone at #OWS. I’d like if ppl called w/ larger groups, but…” #nycga

CQ: “And about trains?” A: “1 part I forgot was we intend to take the burden of Metrocards off of Housing’s hands. They don’t want..”#nycga

Cont’d: “…the burden.” Nan’s POI: “Housing only has Metrocards for 2 weeks; after that it has to go back to GA. They already know…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…about the transportation working group, so Jeff is already aware. If you go back to minutes long ago, it’s posted there.” #nycga

Proposer notes it’s unclear if Spokes can allocate money, but if it can’t, “that’s fine.” Doesn’t change need for the WG. #nycga #ows

CQ: “What’s the specific area you’ll serve that is different from the Transportation WG that already exists?” #nycga #ows

A: “We’d be available 24 hours a day to respond w/in a couple of hours to your transportation needs. AFAIK that doesn’t exist yet.”#nycga

Cont’d: “We haven’t developed a framework yet as to know who has a project and needs it, but we may in the future.” #nycga #ows

CQ: “What can your group solve that the other group can’t?” A: “I work w/ food, and a problem we have all the time is when transportation..”

Cont’d: “…is needed, like a van, it’s a scramble.” CQ: “Why haven’t you joined this other WG?” A: “TBH, I’m not sure how legit this WG is..”

Cont’d: “…there are no minutes online. I don’t know; I’m taking her word for it but there’s no evidence.” #nycga #ows

Jason (stairs) is trying to get folks to focus on Concerns. Nan: “One of the ppl who made the Transportation WG just walked out…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…he’s so insulted. We made the announcement at GA & Spokes.” Reiterates she reached out, asks where they’ll find money. #nycga #ows

A: “The answer is, I’ll volunteer to do this. There are other members of the WG who are willing to do this, ppl w/ driver’s licenses.”#nycga

(That was in response to Nan’s scoffing about their service promises (24/7)). Also, notes that if there’s no money, they’ll go outside OWS.

“If no one asks for transportation, we won’t drive anywhere. If you nd drivers, we show up.” CQ: “So suddenly we’ll have car service?”#nycga

Stairs notes that a lot of these things coming up could be concerns, and we’ve reached end of CQs, so we’re moving to Concerns stack. #nycga

C: “I’ve spoken w/ Nan & w/ you, but my concern is what you just said, made me say, “we at #OWS, before #OWS never had car service…”"#nycga

Cont’d: “”…so why should we have one now?” It would be proactive to have these for specific events…” But Nan & he should sit down, he says.

Chris clarifies, saying that since there is little money from GA, it makes best sense for them to work together w/ Nan rather than conflict.

Anthony notes that there are “Alternative” working groups for certain things, so it’s not unusual to “have 2 wrkng grps” for the same thing.

Next C: “My C is how much this will cost; it could be really expensive, depending on how much your rentals cost.” #nycga #ows

He’s concerned that the vast promise to guarantee transportation is too wide open, and “our role isn’t as a car service.” #NYCGA #OWS

Cont’d: “I see no need for people to be driven around like that.” A: “I have no intention of acting as a chauffeur. The problem I’ve seen..”

Cont’d: “…is not having people have to scramble when they need transportation for a project. That’s just something I’ve experienced.” #nycga

Cont’d: “RE: money, I don’t know what requests would be needed. I’m not asking for $ right now, and if I do, it will be very clear.” #nycga

Cont’d: “And if the transportation WG asks for a budget, and exceeds it faster than expected, that will just have to be the way it is.”

Nan’s C: “We’ve been fundraising, just in case the GA decides to open the account back up, it’ll be transferred to the GA, as that’s who..”

Cont’d: “…it belongs to. My concern we have with this is we’ve been making wrong financial decisions. That’s why we’re in the mess…” #nycga

Cont’d: “..that we are. Everyone around the world keeps asking for money lk we’re an ATM.” “You should be more wise; do yr homework.” #nycga

Nan: “My concern is without more evidence, more fact, I don’t know how your working group is going to survive when we have a budget freeze.”

A: “I do have some details about how much rentals cost; I haven’t been asked so I haven’t given details.” #nycga #ows

.@thejorobin notes that these are ?s that can be answered, “but to do that you need a working group.” “They’re not asking for a budget now.”

Someone suggests that maybe he should table to rework this. A: “We need to do this as a group and are looking forward to doing that..”#nycga

Cont’d: “…we’re asking to be allowed to be a group. I’ve made a mistake here; I attached my vision for what this group may someday do..”

Cont’d: “…that’s not what I’m asking the GA to approve. I’m asking to have this working group; that’s my mistake.” #nycga #ows

“By authorizing this WG you’re not authorizing all those details I described.” Another back and forth starts; Jason diverts back to process.

Ronnie’s POI: “I also created a Transportation WG in early Oct, and told Jeff from Housing; I know I didn’t come to you to consolidate..”

Cont’d: “…our efforts, but I’m concerned that my WG exists as well and isn’t being integrated into your effort.” #nycga #ows

Pavan’s C: “Abuse is a big concern of mine.” Next C: “Feel like this process has been hijacked; all the concerns have been about…” #nycga

Cont’d: “…what this group will do after it’s formed, & he can’t answer that yet.” Notes that other Transportation WG haven’t posted minutes.

Aurora withdraws her concern “because I feel like he’s right, and it pertains to what happens after they’re formed.” #nycga #ows

Next Concern is “this has been done 3 times before” and there’s no group. Will he do it right? A: “I just added it to the site.” #nycga #ows

Next C: “My concern is the frame of expense — it hasn’t been formed, but you’re describing a scale of expense that I don’t think we…”

Cont’d: “…have the income to support. You’re asking to form a working group that might have expenses far beyond” what we can afford. #nycga

A: “If there’s an amount of $ spent- it’s currently $0- these concerns can be raised w/ the $. I agree with you; the amount of money…”#nycga

Cont’d: “…that could be spent could be a lot, but” we haven’t proposed anything yet. Nan’s next. #nycga #ows

Nan: “I’m concerned abt you coming to us– what I understood, before you create a website, you have GA approval 1st.” Not vice versa. #nycga

Nan’s second concern is that this is a plot to get us to “have more debt.” [We're $170k above water. -Ed.] “You’re asking us to have..”

Cont’d: “…faith in something we can’t even see.” Stairs recognizes 3 PoIs before he responds. #nycga #ows

Aurora’s PoI: “The last metro card proposal, they only felt comfortable passing it if during the 2 weeks we worked on other options.” #nycga

Ronnie’s PoI: “The WG criteria doesn’t specify what order you nd to do things in,” so Nan’s off-base. Other PoI was a dupe.#nycga

POI, @thejorobin: “No WG has been required to provide a budget before ratification, ever.” #nycga #ows

CQ: “Does GA apprvl give WG access to $100/day?” Ronnie: “Not until it meets all the requirements.” Proposer notes they don’t wnt it. #nycga

POI: “RE: ComHub proposal…” there’s some confusion… we’re looking it up. Confirmed, 30 day grace period only for existing WGs. #nycga #ows

(Means all new WGs nd to be ratified by the GA.) Nan asks, what if you already announced before proposal passed? A: Grandfathered til 20th.

OK, moving on to Friendly Amendments. Chris’ FA: “I wish you two would come to some type of understanding.” Wants to table til then. #nycga

A: “I accept the friendly amendment of trying to work with the other group; I don’t find the amendment to table friendly, but I do promise..

Cont’d: “…that my group will do our best to work with this other group.” They have about 8 ppl right now. “Personally, I’d like to see..”

Cont’d: “..the process go forward tonight without having to table it.” Next FA, Nan: “My FA; my working group already made the anncmnt…”

Cont’d: “…my friendly amendment is you guys work with us, and table to make this a better working group.” #nycga #ows

A: “I promise, we’ll work with everyone. It’s an open group and I will go to the other meeting & do my best to connect these groups..”#nycga

Cont’d: “..together. People who want to work on transportation for #OWS should be working together. This isn’t a power play; I want..”#nycga

Cont’d: “..to solve a problem.” FA: “It snds lk you’re very sincere; what if you form a subgrp of this grp?” If doesn’t work, can come back.

A: “I’d love to work w/ the other group. How many people in that group?” Nan: “6 ppl.” A: “We have more ppl than in the other group.” #nycga

Also notes that they have posted minutes. “The other group doesn’t have posted minutes; we’re already more transparent.” #nycga #ows

Stairs notes that this is getting into unrelated things. “Let’s focus on this proposal to ratify this group.” #nycga #ows

POI: “This supposed transportation working group hasn’t done anything to my knowledge. Also, both ppl who are currently..” #nycga

Cont’d: “..using their private vehicles for #OWS, were at [this working group being proposed now's] meeting.” #nycga #ows

FA: “Since the broader scope is to find any cheaper, more efficient means of transport, could you organize a bike share?” #nycga #ows

A: “I readily accept that; I’m going to bring that to the group.” Doesn’t want to call it Transportation in case there’s a conflict #nycga

Cont’d: “There’s a lot of things I want to discuss about transportation that are totally outside of what we’ll talk about tonight.” #nycga

Ronnie’s FA: “Like I mentioned before, I had my own transportation group.” Suggests they consolidate his into theirs, “so we’re all..”#nycga

Cont’d: “…working on the same mission together, because it’s about mission, not individuals.” #nycga #ows

A: “My group wants to work with *anyone* helping to facilitate transportation for #OWS. My group, your group, any group.” #nycga

Cont’d: “We can call it ‘Snails on the Wall’ WG; as long as we can facilitate transportation for #OWS.” #nycga #ows

FA: “We need transportation; different people have different ideas; let’s ratify, let’s get it going, let’s see who’s resourceful.” #nycga

Cont’d: “No one’s ever driven me; I carry food every day. So these groups are ghosts to me — let’s see who steps up.” #nycga #ows

Stairs: “I see lots of up twinkles on that, which says to me as facilitator that we all want to work together on this.” #nycga #ows

That’s it for FA’s; Jason asks how the GA feels “about moving towards consensus on this proposal.” “That looks fairly good.” #nycga #ows

Stairs asks if there are any standasides. Notes there is nothing to stop these groups from working together if they’re ratified. #nycga

No standasides. Any blocks? Someone suggests we restate the proposal. Stairs: “You’re right; I’m sorry.” Mea culpa, he says. #nycga #ows

Restated: “The transportation working group will facilitate transportation for #OWS.” Friendly amendments…going to @Buddhagem on Minutes…

Friendly amendments were: to set up a ride/bike share, work w/ anyone interested in similar mission, and to decline the $100/day. #nycga

Stairs: “OK, one last time, temperature check. That looks very good… any standasides?” No. “Any blocks?” Several blocks. #nycga #ows

Stairs: “As each blocker presents their block, we’ll go to response from proposer and try to see if we can resolve those concerns.” #nycga

Chris asks Jason to clarify what a block is. “It’s a moral, ethical, or safety issue so strong that you could leave the movement itself.”

Block 1: “This proposal to me just sounds like a pet proposal; sounds cool, but doesn’t benefit the group.” #nycga #ows

PoP: “That’s not a moral, ethical, or safety concern.” Blocker is non-plussed. #nycga #ows

PoI: “If you eat food, this is doing something for you, as it will let Kitchen bring food to you.” #nycga #ows

Nan’s block: “I block not only b/c of the money [What money?? -Ed.], but because it’s a problem if two ppl are doing the same thing.” #nycga

Next Block: “I feel the same way that she does, as far as the amount of $ being spent.” [There's no money being spent. -Ed.] #nycga #ows

Block: “This doesn’t confirm to standard of this body. Who will be driving these vehicles? Do they have licenses?” Suggests refining. #nycga

Another block joined. “My block is a quorum issue. I’m concerned there’s only 20 ppl here, and if we push through consensus and it might..”

Cont’d: “…be not tabled but declined. It should be heard by more people who I think will be very supportive.” #nycga #ows

A: “I’d like to address everyone who spoke and talk about the concerns; I don’t think I can address them now, which means…” #nycga #ows

Cont’d: “…this won’t pass, and that’s OK. I think you’re right; I wish there were more people here. Specific issues about what the group..”

Cont’d: “…will do after it’s formed.. we haven’t formed, so we’d want to work out those issues. A driver’s code of ethics is definitely..”

Cont’d: “…something we need to work out as a group. As an opinion, I don’t know if it directly affects the formation of the group…” #nycga

Cont’d: “As I said earlier, I made a mistake earlier giving too much info about my personal vision for the group.” He’ll table it for later.

Cont’d: “I was trying to move quickly to solve a problem I saw as urgent; not a power play, just trying to solve a problem. And honestly…”

Cont’d: “..I wanted to do it the right way.” Notes that it *is* a pet project in that it is something inspired by the logistical headaches..

Cont’d: …he’s run into working on the ground. Says many have affirmed what he’s doing and asked why it hasn’t been done earlier. #nycga

Cont’d: “Perhaps not seeing the need is a result of not running into the problems I’ve run into.” #nycga #ows

Ahh, sorry, forgot to close the GA tweets– yeah, t’was the only proposal: tabled. Have a great night fam! [ <3 -@DiceyTroop] #nycga #ows

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