Tweets for Mon, 16 Jan 2012

Posted by & filed under Livetweets.

Hey fam! We’re about to start the #OWS Spokescouncil, at 86th/Amsterdam tonight. Follow here, @LibertySqGA2, @LibertySqGA3, @LibertySqGA4.

Laura is introducing herself — she’s one of our co-facilitators tonight, and has done a lot w/ the Library. #nycga #ows

.@shawncarrie is our other facilitator. Stefan and @emst are timekeeper and stack taker, respectively! Woohoo! #nycga #ows

Shawn: “When we enter the space, we’re committed to mutual respect, and mutual aid and anti-oppression. Let’s keep in mind there are..”

Cont’d: “…forms of oppression we don’t really see, because oppression is invisible, and if you step back you might learn something about…”

Cont’d: “…oppression you didn’t see before, if you take the opportunity to step back before speaking. One of the most disrespectful things..

Cont’d: “..you can do to someone is deny them the right to speak, & by interrupting them, you just a little bit deny them the…” #nycsc #OWS

Cont’d: “…right to speak. It’s not an evil thing; we’ve all done it before.” But we should listen, then respond. #nycsc #ows

Laura notes that “this may be a bit of an interesting Spokescouncil” because Saturday’s GA froze the budget. “We’ve been made..” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “…aware that there’s some disagreement on how this plays out, and so we’ll make some space here to address it.” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “We’ll go into our groups — break out for 3 minutes — then we’ll open, have a 10 minute discussion, take stack to address this.”

Shawn: “It’s just an opportunity to speak with your groups before we talk.” Jason, whose proposal it is, recaps the proposal… #nycsc #ows

Jason: “I don’t have the full text, but the #OWS budget is frozen until we have a Financial assembly sometime next week. It exempts…”#nycsc

Cont;d: “…food and housing, and proposals relating to metro cards are able to be heard.” Also, pre-approved budget items. #nycsc #ows

Jason explains a meeting will happen tomorrow at 60 Wall to set up the financial assembly, which can consense to unfreeze the $. #nycsc #ows

OK, now working groups will discuss the question of how we deal with the proposal that froze the funds. What’s unclear is… #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: …whether this restriction, obviously meant to be movement-wide, applies to Spokescouncil. This is a conflict between the GA…

Cont’d: …and the empowerment of spokescouncil, on a structural (not personal) level. Where we go with this as a spokescouncil will… #nycsc

Cont’d: …have repercussions, regardless of whether we decide we need to follow the GA’s decision or ignore it and take it head on. #nycsc

RT @occupymusician: #live now at #spokescouncil on http://t.co/v3aeSPqr and http://t.co/LTq0DW5K #ows @occupywallstnyc @libertysqga

OK, now stacking up comments. First @dap: “We feel that GA doesn’t have authority over Spokes, so it can’t make this decision.” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “The only thing it says that the GA can do is dissolve Spokescouncil, which must be announced a week in advance.” #nycsc #ows

Next, @OWSFacilitation: Sully: “We want to acknowledge there are 2 problems here. The specific question is, what to do w/ regard to freeze..

Cont’d: “…the overarching question is uncertainty as to the relative powers of these two bodies. Regarding the overarching problem…”

Cont’d: “…we have pretty serious reservations in our group about whether the GA can restrict the powers of the Spokescouncil. We also…”

Cont’d: “…are respectful of the concerns of those who think it does. We need to be careful. Regarding immediate situation, we don’t want…”

Cont’d: “…the Spokescouncil to wage war with the GA, so we think it should follow through and cooperate w/ the formation of this…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…financial assembly, & use it as an opportunity for the SC to carry out its original charge of doing budgeting in a concrete way.”

Next, Picture the Homeless. “I have two things, mainly questions: I wanted to ask if there’s a list of occupiers who were arrested, and…”

Cont’d: “…how, if not, we go about getting that, so we don’t have just numbers, but also the names of ppl that were arrested…”

Cont’d: “…and participating in the events or protest. And the next thing is, do we have an education program so as to inform members…”

Cont’d: “…who have been arrested to make them aware of the various terms that are used…” Library PoPs (@HelloFrances!); not about proposal.

Next: “I was just thinking about hearing that $50k has been spent and we have nothing to show for it. We need the freeze, and we need…”

Cont’d: “…to manage it. Because that’s ridiculous. $50k/week, that’s $100k/a month. And I’ve never seen any of it.” #nycsc #ows

DA: “The $ is GA’s money; if the GA is what froze it, doesn’t matter who else is trying to get it — it’s frozen. SC doesn’t have access.”

Cont’d: “But that’s what we’re kind of talking about — whether the SC has access to that still. That wasn’t made clear in the beginning.”

.@shawncarrie: “Let’s try to keep in mind right now that the people talking are just Spokes.” Sage and Nan both trying to interrupt. #nycsc

Next, Press. “Hi, everybody. I made the proposal; I’m the only one here from my working group. But the reason I brought this proposal is..”

Cont’d: “…I wanted us all to slow down, and look at ourselves, and I don’t think we’ve done that in the entire process of this movement..”

Cont’d: “…to slow down, look at the things we’ve done,” look at the bigger picture. “This also really exposes the need to look at…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…our decision-making process, and maybe this is something we need to slow down, analyze it ourselves, and before taking the next..”

Cont’D: “…step, look at where we’ve gone and then figure out how to go forward.” OWS Works: “We strongly feel the general fund is..” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…what provides resources to the whole movement, and there’s a very good case to be made that the GA has overarching control.”#nycsc

Cont’d: “That said, there’s a good case to be made on both sides.” Let’s respect that a big part of our movement went to GA and said…

Cont’d: …”Let’s step back.” Notes that GA made allowance for the stuff Spokes is supposed to do, but “please, let’s come together..”#nycsc

Cont’d: “…as people, take a step back and think about budgeting so we don’t spend $50k a week.” #nycsc #ows

Next: “I agree, the $50k/week is too much, and this gives us a chance to shake things down and look at how we operate collectively…” #nycsc

Cont;d: “Maybe we do a little stop, take a look around at how we work together.” Next: “I’m learning a lot about this, but… correct me..”

Cont’d: “…if I’m wrong, but anyone can go to GA and participate. But SC is specifically for working groups and the people in the movement..”

Cont’d: “…itself, and we’re all movement-oriented. This is movement-driven stuff. So I don’t understand why a decision made in public..”

Cont’d: “…at GAs should affect spokescouncil.” But does agree this needs to be talked about and “the bleeding has to stop.” #nycsc #ows

SWR: “GA authorized Spokes to exist; can take it away as well.” Asks that what’s written about it be read out loud so there’s no confusion.

Next, Comfort. “I’m w/ the freeze; I like the freeze.” Nan starts yelling. Folks who feel strongly about the GA’s ownership of the fund…

Cont’d: …seem to be having trouble making space for this conversation to even happen here. #nycsc #ows

About 10 people formed a human wall and are encircling Nan so she can’t interfere with the meeting. She’d been hollering nonstop. #nycsc

This is a new development for #OWS; folks taking non-violent direct action to deal with disruption. #nycsc #ows http://t.co/j3NDXcUW

@allisonkilkenny Yeah basically. It’s calmed her down, but we also can’t really continue until she leaves or ppl sit. #nycsc #ows

Stairs: “I’m feeling that this assembly isn’t ready to move forward w/ Spokescouncil. I’d like to facilitate…” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “…but I’m not sure we’re ready to do that, and it’s a group activity.” Notes it’s hard to deal w/ Nan and continue Spokes. #nycsc

RT @AliaGee1: @LibertySqGA Did it N17 when some guys were swearing and shouting at us that we weren’t real New Yorkers. (Not exactly the …

Stairs: “I have a POI: the pastor of the church is here, and de-escalation has been empowered to deal w/ this situation however we…” #nycsc

Cont’d: — sorry, “they see fit.” Suggests that may include calling for outside help. Suggestion has also been made to halt SC and have…

Cont’d: …a “general community meeting to deal w/ what’s happening right now.” Asks if we want to do that. Temp check? #nycsc #ows

.@lmnopie suggests they put a time limit on it. @shawncarrie: “It seems like things are kind of dissolving; I think it makes sense to…”

Cont’d: “…halt what we’re doing, and deal with this now.” @HelloFrances: “I’d hate for this to derail the Spokescouncil. Let’s keep moving.”

.@shawncarrie: “I’d like to note the best thing you can do is reach in and find peace in yourself, and not get sucked in.” #nycsc #ows

@heratylaw definitely never happened at Spokes tho, and I’ve never really seen it at GA except for like drunk non-members of community.

.@shawncarrie: “In order for us to facilitate process, the room needs to facilitate itself and draw attention to the group.” #nycsc

Wow, the room just dropped to near silence, punctuated only by a couple of people still talking who have been unable to step back. #nycsc

.@shawncarrie: “The spending freeze brought up some bad vibes, but also some underlying issue.” Moving along… #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “We had 2 proposals that were brought to us at the start of this reason; one was financial, the other one wasn’t.” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “What we’re going to do is go ahead with the non-financial proposal.” #nycsc #ows

@heratylaw applied to whom?

TechOps’ PoP: “Tech feels the discussion we were having is not finished; I’d like to take a temp check to see if..” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “…people feel strongly about finishing the discussion that we brought up,” re: whether Spokes is bound by GA spending freeze.#nycsc

OK, Facilitation is going to try to clarify this and “propose that the Spokescouncil consense on cooperating w/ the spending freeze.” #nycsc

Facilitation also suggests that we support and contribute to process of establishing the Financial Assembly empowered to unfreeze $. #nycsc

.@shawncarrie making a heroic effort to refocus the room, despite disruptors talking constantly. #nycsc #ows

Stairs: “We’ve tried several things to move forward, and it hasn’t worked for the room…” Other people stepping up to try to facilitate.

Sage is stepping up. “I’ve asked the Facilitation team to allow me to bring –” “Oh, no,” starts a chorus of boos. #nycsc #ows

Nan’s trying to mic check; no one’s responding. There’s probably no more clear rejection frm this community than unspoken ban frm human mic.

.@shawncarrie: “This is really difficult. I don’t know the way to proceed. But it starts w/ one mic; one voice. We might get somewhere..”

Cont’d: “…from one person speaking at a time.” Suggests one way forward would be to open a stack for people who feel need to speak to do so.

Cont’d: The next way: “to hear the proposal facilitation has brought,” and finally to ask “if there are other things we want to talk about.”

Sully steps up. “I’m asking for your permission to jump in to facilitate.” Some clap.[I strongly feel this wasn't about facilitation.]#nycsc

Sully: “I need a minute to figure out what’s going on.” Teddy Mic Checks. “I’m Teddy. I live here. We’ve lost a place to live here…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…if Spokescouncil acts like this, we’ll lose this place for Spokescouncil. So fuckin’ grow up, and fuckin’ behave.” #nycsc #ows

Jeff: POI: “The Reverend of this church wanted to address the community this evening re: spokescouncil and events in housing here.”

Jeff asks that we give him space to speak here, introduces Reverend Bob. Says he’s an activist and supports us strongly. #nycsc #ows

Rev Bob: “Just let me say a few words; I’m not going to take too long. Re: Spokescouncil: tonight — ” interrupted by a disruptor whistling.

Cont’d: “You’re not the only people in here. There are classes below you. Obviously what happened earlier can’t happen.” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “What I want is a community of communities. We want an intention of mutual respect and mutual accountability.” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “When this group is in here Wednesday night, it can’t go down like this. It can’t happen. I have a responsibility to make sure..”

Cont’d: “…everyone in this space, and the neighbors feel safe and secure.” RE: what happened recently… #nycsc #ows

“A few weeks ago, my laptop was stolen. I’m an urban chapter; it happens. I’ll get something back. But now we’re in a place where we have…”

Cont’d: “…to put locks on the door. That’s not social progress, that’s social egress.” Tells us that they had a very old Baptismal fount..

Cont’d: “We discovered the other day, the base was gone,” other parts missing. Noticed by someone whose entire family was baptized there…

Cont’d: “It’s not God that makes it holy; it’s people’s experiences, people’s hopes.” “Even in 80s, when crackheads came in here w/ knives…”

Cont’d: “…even they didn’t mess w/ that stuff.” Asks that SC somehow coherently respond to that incident; wants the thing put back together.

Cont’d: “It’s not like, ‘i’m sorry, it won’t happen again.’ I have to speak to pain of ppl who felt their lives were violated by that.”

Rev. Bob says if we can’t do that, then we can’t stay here. “Consensus is really cool. It works if everyone agrees on what the goal is…”

Cont’d: “…and if you’re committed to one another. If you’re not, it stops being a vehicle of empowerment, becomes vehicle of oppression.”

Cont’d: “We all know what the other side is capable of. And you’re all gonna make it easy for them, they won’t have to lift a finger.”#nycsc

Cont’d: “Don’t make it easy for them. This is the long haul. You’ve all got to be in solidarity w/ one another, or it’s over. OK?” #nycsc

Reverend Bob thanks us. We applaud heartily, and when it settles down the room is quiet for the first time in an hour. #nycsc #ows

Someone steps up. “On behalf of these people, we need to apologize. We’re beyond sorry.” Have been working towards solutions. #nycsc

The basin was found recently. They’re working to put it together, or to get artists to build something of meaningful replacement. #nycsc

The next thing is to go and publicly apologize to the congregation, to show “we don’t need to resort to stealing.” #nycsc #ows

“We signed community agreements 2 days ago that said we have to be accountable for the behavior of those staying here.” #nycsc

“We need to change the dynamic here, and we apologize it hasn’t been done before. We need people to be involved in OWS, Spokes, actions.”

“I know there have been people working w/ building; we’ll get more of that. We’ll present it to the people who stay here, and I know all…”

Cont’d: “…the ppl who stay here who are in this room, they’re committed to the work.” “Those ppl actually here are the ones who’ll work.”

Anthony: “I don’t stay at the churches; never have. But when it comes to manual labor, I’m fine with that in any spare time I have.”

Cont’d: “I also want to say, we’re all a family, we’re all a community. We should not be fuckin’ each other over.” #nycsc #ows

Sully notes we’ve had a request to monitor our language in the space we’re in. #nycsc #ows

Sully: “We’ve had a presentation of a proposed solution to this situation, so let’s take some CQs and see if it works for the room.” #nycsc

Bob: “I got impression I wasn’t going to get a coherent response.” Feels we need a 2-3 day break, but “I’m open to being cnvncd diffrntly.”

Bob requests that the suggestion that came from the two proposers who spoke earlier be written down so he can respond to it. #nycsc

Bob: “I’d like if you could use your networks to return the original [missing component], but if not, I could live with #OWS creating…”

Cont’d: “…a replacement that will last, so 40 years from now after I’m gone people will look at it and say, “Occupy Wall Street, who…”

Cont’d: “…changed the world, created that, something that became a part of this congregation.”" #nycsc #ows

Next, Translation. “We talked about a safe space, people should respect language. Everyone’s walking around, instead of being…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…in a circle. It’s really disruptive; please respect our group. I understand this is a sensitive issue, and there’s a lot of…”

Cont’d: “…emotion involve, and we don’t want to forget we’re here too. We use a visual language, we need to be able to see.”

Cont’d: “I understand some things happen, and that’s completely understandable. But please, be aware of us.” Translated from ASL. #nycsc

Sully: “B/c what we’re talking about right now is about space, and deals with a lot of people’s needs, I want to ask that we move out of…”

Cont’d: “…Spokes mode to deal with this agenda item.” OK, we’re doing that. So people who aren’t Spokes can speak. #nycsc #ows

Mike: “I want to know if we can compensate them for the lost computer and basin top. I’ve heard comments we didn’t do it…” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “…but we’ll suffer for it if we can’t compensate for it. I do think we need to get the church back where they were before we came..”

Cont’d: “…in fact, it was our intention to leave them better off. We should leave them in a better place and they were before.” #nycsc #ows

Sully asks if proposals accept that friendly amendment. “Yes, no questions asked. That would be great.” #nycsc #ows

Next: “First, I came from Miami FL, and I’m eternally grateful to be able to stay at this church. Pastor has a heart of gold for letting..”

Cont’d: “…us stay here,” despite the bad things that happened. “I really appreciate the idea that [inaudible] and Maria came..”

Cont’d: “…up with,” wants people here to be involved, be part of the community, empowered, self-directed. #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “I’d like to be able to respond to consequences of actions” within our community. “If it weren’t for us, none of this would have..”

Cont’d: “…happened to him or this church. So I agree with us compensating him,” going forward and “making this church better than it was.”

Also, she asks us if she knows where she and others from this church can stay the night if they’re kicked out. #nycsc #ows

“There were about 70 of us… we’re going to be staying outside tonight.” Ouch. Sully notes that we need to do one thing at a time #nycsc #ows

Sully: “What we have right now is a proposal to redress,” try to deal w/ this space. Suggests breakout to deal w/ immediate housing needs.

Nick is “very disappointed in Facilitation today because they wanted to hear a budget proposal,” had an emergency meeting today which…

Cont’d: …should have been how to settle this. [This has nothing to do with Facilitation's responsibilities. -Ed.] #nycsc #ows

Nick proposes we purchase a new baptismal thing for this church. #nycsc #ows

Sully notes that that is, indeed, the proposal we’re discussing. #nycsc #ows

Next person says “#1 priority” is to replace the man’s laptop. Says we don’t need signs, meetings. [OK, so how do we allocate $? Ugh. -Ed.]

Next, Tio suggests we need to have a participation requirement for people to be staying in #OWS housing. “Everyone should be in..”#nycsc

Cont’d: “…a working group or somehow involved in the movement.” Sully asks him how that relates to the proposal; it’s a friendly amendment.

Sully: “What I’m hearing is an amendment to the proposal requiring that people in housing have to be in working groups.” #nycsc #ows

Proposer: “I think people need to be responsible for the community. Maybe not finance, but the cleanup crew we have here — get involved.”

Tio: “How do you mean, chores and helping out?” That’s basically what she means, yes. Tio: “I feel that’s not enough.” #nycsc #ows

Nan: “When the Metrocard budget came to GA, we added that as a friendly amendment.” Suggests needs to be added to housing budget request.

Sully: “It seems to me we’re talking about things beyond scope of this specific problem; I’m asking we focus on the problem at hand.” #nycsc

James from Organization: “I’m really concerned we’ve left SC mode and are now in a Twilight Zone mode, where we have no process…” #nycsc

Cont;’d: “If this isn’t Spokescouncil, and isn’t a GA, how are we doing this?” Sully: “We’re still a Spokescouncil. We’ve been asked to..”

Cont’d: “…respond to this specific issue.” Notes precedent for Spokescouncil leaving Spokes format and going to individual mode…

Cont’d: …and notes that it’s because this affects ppl in the room who aren’t Spokes or part of working groups. #nycsc #ows

Anthony’s POI: “NYPD are sending homeless people to our churches.” Accounting: “I feel I was totally disrespected. I came in…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…and I signed something saying I’d be good. It kind of goes against everything I believe, but I signed it. We all did.” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: She’s mad that “Facilitation didn’t step up” to deal w/ the disruption. Says that she and Reverend Bob are similar in age… #nycsc

Cont’d: “…and I’m sorry to sound like an old leftie, but we knew in our day that some of those people were cops.” #nycsc #ows

Sully suggests proposers answer how they’ll deal w/ disruption. She feels that they’ll need a “tiny bit of power” to exclude disruptors.

Susie, Support: “It’s my understanding that as far as this proposal goes, the Pastor was clear on what he wanted, which was…” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “…what the specific proposal was, which was re: lid to baptismal font.” Notes laptop is dealt w/ already, and not about disruption.

Cont’d: “I have no problem if the Spokescouncil as a whole wants to address it, but he wanted to be addressed RE: lid before end of SC.”

Cont’d: She also notes that Bob mentioned he still wanted to remove #OWSers for 2 days; but it’s very cold tonight and it’s conceivable…

Cont’d: …if we communicate with him satisfactorily he might let some ppl stay during the next 2 days. “But during those 2 days, I believe..”

Cont’d: “..that he’d like #OWS, the Spokescouncil to come up with a way of dealing with how he can relate to #OWS more efficiently…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…more smoothly, dealing with communication and lines of authority.” Suggests the 2-day breather is intended to help come up w/ tht.

Cont’d: “I don’t think he wants to be a part of that process; he feels, and I think we agree, that it’s incumbent on #OWS.” #nycsc #ows

OK, next on stack: Nan. “I feel very sorry for those ppl who’ve had to sleep outside during the cold, & some of them are #occupiers.” #nycsc

Cont’d: “But I feel those individuals who force their will, their policing, whatever you want to call it, is wrong. For example, one…”

Cont’d: “…of the things being policing…” Says she loves her occupiers, but feels this space isn’t safe. Now starting in on spending freeze.

Sully: “We’re not making a decision about how this space will be used; this is a petition for redress.” #nycsc #ows

Someone asks they clarify proposal. “It’s that we’ll either replace the font, or have some artists come up w/ something equivalent…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…an apology to the congregation, an overall change in how we’re going to operate here, things like that.” #nycsc #ows

Sully: “So what does this room need to agree to?” A: “To give us the power to redress situation with Pastor.” #nycsc #ows

Sully recaps, noting main components of plan are to redress grievances of material loss and then also work to solidify community agreements.

CQ: “Seems there was a security element before; that got lost somewhere along the line.” A: “That was about something already fixed..”#nycsc

Sully: “To be clear, it’s not part of the proposal.” Jake, TechOps wants to know why we’re talking about this as a Spokescouncil if it’s…

Cont’d: …about the community living here. Sully: “We were asked to do this tonight.” #nycsc #ows

Someone asked about whether a budget is required. Sully: “Is that getting covered here or would that need another proposal?” #nycsc #ows

They answer it would need another proposal. Right now it’s unclear where any budget money would come from anyway. #nycsc #ows

Evelyn: “Paying Pastor back is right thing to do, but it’s not sustainable.” Proposes a community watch, so ppl will be held accountable.

Cont’d: “Some of us may lose our privacy, but if it protects property, if we can’t establish trust, it might be needed.” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “Trust is imperative, but unfortunately” we’re not there. “Please, be mindful of where you are.” #nycsc #ows

Someone notes that the Church also expects that people who stay here are active participants in their communities. #nycsc #ows

They suggest that anyone who stays here should need to be signed for by a WG “point person”. Housing notes they tried. #nycsc #ows

The proposers ask how the community feels about that friendly amendment. Lots of uptwinkles. Ravi and Nan are pointing PoIs at each other

Ravi: “Hi! One of the things we’ve been working on really hard is to build strong relationships w/ communities” at churches “so that..”

Cont’d: “..everyone who wants to be actively involved in the community, can be.” Thinks OWS Work can get everyone involved. #nycsc #ows

Ravi also notes there have been many people here not participating. Also, people have not been coming to actions. “That is a problem.”#nycsc

Nan’s POI was pure opinion, but she notes that she suggested the same thing at last housing proposal. #nycsc #ows

Sully recaps: “We’ve had an amendment to require working group participation; and Housing has asked how ppl feel about that.” #nycsc #ows

Sully: “I’m seeing POIs all over, but sometimes you just have to keep rolling.” Starts temp check. “That looks pretty good.” #nycsc #ows

Someone interjects w/ a PoI, & it’s not informational. The room gets unruly. Sully, killin’ it: “Hey, room! Let me deal with it! Thank you!”

The proposers accept the amendment. Sean from Town Planning notes that ppl visiting need some kind of dispensation. #nycsc #ows

Ravi has a PoI, coaxes Sully to hear it: “Ppl from other occupations can join 2 working groups: Occupiers and Inter-Occupy.” #nycsc #ows

Next, Chris. “I have a concern w/ the proposal; I’ve been a member of this community; I’m concerned we have nowhere to stay tonight if…”

Cont’d: “…this doesn’t work out. But my concern is that as a group, we’re not really addressing the issue of whether we deserve this space.”

Cont’d: “Whether through all these spaces we’ve been offered and kicked out of, we’ve never addressed question of why we can’t…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…maintain this space, why we can’t come together as a group and be respectful of the spaces offered us. I think this proposal is..”

Cont’d: “…a good-faith effort to deal w/ these problems, but I think having a piecemeal solution at the last second under duress of..”#nycsc

Cont’d: “…not having somewhere to stay isn’t the way to do it.” Asks that we examine why this happens and ask if we deserve these places…

Cont’d: …generous support. Next: “My concern is it sounds like Pastor wanted actual piece returned; sounds like a lot of the proposal is..”

Cont’d: “…to replace it.” Suggests they add something to proposal for outreach for trying to get it back. #nycsc #ows

First point, proposer says, is to find the stolen piece. Sully notes this sounds like it’s more abt implementation than the proposal. #nycsc

Jake: “My concern is there are 2 ways we use this space; 1 is housing, 1 is SC. While I appreciate your effort to step up and say you’ll..”

Cont’d: “…enforce our agreements, I don’t have much faith it’s possible. I haven’t been very involved in housing; maybe it’s possible…”

Cont’d: “…there, but I don’t think it’s possible in Spokescouncil.” People have worked hard, but so far we haven’t proved we have a fix.

Cont’d: “So for us to go in front of Pastor and Congregation and put the name of #OWS on the line again, I can’t support that because…”

Cont’d: “…I don’t think we can do it.” Proposer understands, but notes that if we give up here, we lose housing and SC space. #nycsc #ows

Jeff PoI: “The proposer is asking for only one resolution. But these requests are from this community, that if they give their consent…”

Cont’d: “…to give to the pastor..” says that it’s valid for Spokescouncil to be raising these concerns. We all agree, tho. #nycsc #ows

Sully: “I’m hearing lots of different perspectives on what Pastor wants. But we did hear from the Pastor.” #nycsc #ows

Sully notes that what we really need is to decide if this is a proposal we as a community can move forward with. #nycsc #ows

Next, someone who stepped up to facilitate earlier apologizes “for yelling at you earlier, but when you see the room escalate,” hard to sit.

Cont’d: “I want to propose that 3 days from now, we have an event w/ musicians, comedy, speakers from community to speak…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…about what they wish to say, without being speaken over, ridiculed, judged, and will be a time for potential forgiveness.” #nycsc

Sully has to stop her, because it has nothing to do with the proposal. She gets up, upset, and leaves. #nycsc #ows

Jason from Faciliatation asks that we stop talking about this and just pass it, since “I don’t see it as that complicated.” #nycsc #ows

Next concern is similar to the earlier one that we shouldn’t ask for another chance without a solution to the problem. #nycsc #ows

“These churches have been asked to house activists for #OWS, and that’s just not what’s been going on in our housing.” #nycsc #ows

Proposer asks for a temp check on that friendly amendment, which is to say we’ll only be here another week, and then vacate. #nycsc #ows

The temp check was mixed to negative on that one, which isn’t super shocking. Ravi: “This whole situation has been really tough. I’ve been..

Cont’d: “..staying here for a minute. This is a tough room, and you guys have been fantastic, & putting this together is really admirable.”

Cont’d: “We should recognize that. My concern is regarding our inability to hold to our community agreements. There have been situations..”

Cont’d: “…where agreements that have been consensed upon that have been overturned on an ad hoc basis. There is no promise we could make…”

Cont’d: “..to this wonderful man and this wonderful community that we couldn’t potentially break.” Suggests we need an exit strategy. #nycsc

Her FA is to empower “specific people with the authority to reject people who have violated those proposals.” Suggests it be De-Escalation.

Cont’d: “Without that, we are animals; if we can’t keep our word, we are animals. We must specifically empower people to help us enforce..”

Cont’d: “…community agreements by rejecting people if that is necessary.” She wants a process for that. Nan is yelling, because she knows.

Proposer: “I worked at SPSA for a long time, but I learned a lot and made a lot of mistakes. This won’t make me the most popular person…”

Proposer: “I worked at SPSA for a long time, but I learned a lot and made a lot of mistakes. This won’t make me the most popular person…”

Cont’d: “…in the room, but I agree. One of the biggest problems is that we came here with no rules.” The community agreement “failed.”

Cont’d: “And I’m sad that it failed, because there are amazing ppl here and I respect them and what they do. But because it hasn’t…”

Cont’d: “…worked, there need to be a few ppl who take responsibility and action so we can actually stay somewhere and not just…”

Cont’d: “…do something on empty promises, blindly, with no actual way to enforce it or do something for ourselves.” Accountability.

Cont’d: “…do something on empty promises, blindly, with no actual way to enforce it or do something for ourselves.” Accountability.

“There needs to be good people here, the good people who do the same work out there for #OWS every day. So I’m going to accept the FA.”

Sully asks her to clarify. Proposer: “De-escalation and some people from the community will be given a tiny bit of power to enforce.”

.@lmnopie suggests that people need to reckon w/ difference b/w work for movement and work at Churches. “That’s not work, that’s chores.”

Cont’d: “We all hv to do that.” Says people actually nd to be involved in #OWS, wants to extend FA to rule out “chores” as “work for mvmnt.”

Sage bursts out with an accusation, and immediately apologizes and puts his hands over his mouth. De-escalation pulls him aside. #nycsc #ows

.@lmnopie continues, expressing concern, like many, with lack of accountability. Reiterates her FA. Stairs notes we only have til 10:30.

Nan makes a personal attack at proposers and accuses them of “policing people.” “This movement is not about policing people…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…communication is what we’re missing. You can ask what they need.” “You opened the door for those ppl to defend themselves. And..”

Cont’d: “…a person like me, if people try to police me, I’m going to fight you. And if you touch me, that’s going to be another step. So..”

Cont’d: “..you people really need to think about that.” Says is concerned with how folks are dealing with disruption. #nycsc #ows

Finally, gets to FA. “Before you guys try policing people, I’d ask tht you guys talk to person, ask what they need before policing anybody.”

The amendment is accepted. “We’re not about policing people, Nan; it’s not about throwing someone out.” Sully asks ppl to stop side condos.

Sully: ‘What I heard was a FA committing to a de-escalation tactic whn enforcement is required. A commitment to going through non-violent..”

Cont’d: “…channels.” That was accepted, he reiterates. Nan seems mollified. Sully: “That was the end of stack, and we’re…” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “…close to the end of time here.” Asks people to stick to topic, strictly. #nycsc #ows

Jake’s CQ: “Does the accepted amendment to ask people to leave apply to Spokes or just housing?” [Nooooooo! Don't do it! -Ed.] #nycsc #ows

Answer is no, just housing. Room did not explode. Close call. Sully opens a stack for any desperately needed statements, Cs an FAs. #nycsc

.@wookietv notes we’ve already done those stacks; Sully clarifies that stack was closed before all were spoken. Corey: “That happens w/…”

Cont’d: “…every stack, and we don’t go back.” Sully recognizes this, but wants to give people a chance. There’s not much — stack closed.

Oh, 1 more, FA asks that “if de-escalation removes someone, the community has a chance to consense on it in meeting.” Accepted. #nycsc #ows

Max notes that “the pastor doesn’t expect us to solve our housing problems now; just wants us to make amends.” Sully clarifies that… #nycsc

Cont’d: …the Spokescouncil has expressed clearly that beyond amends, they want to be prepared to do better going forward. #nycsc #ows

Ronnie says that he spoke to Pastor, and what he wants most is cohesion. I guess we’re back to FAs; his is “if we are unable to maintain…”

Cont’d: “…and keep this space, then we leave the movement. If you want to maintain this space, you need to put yourself on the line for it..

Cont’d: “You need to go beyond words to action and own it, maintain this space, show the Pastor you’re serious.” #nycsc #ows

Sully notes that he saw a lot of response, but wants to be clear “it goes beyond what we can do in this proposal b/c it goes beyond…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…principles of solidarity w/r/t autonomy. We can’t require individuals to leave the movement, I’m sorry.” #nycsc #ows

People are frustrated with that, ask if that’s an opinion. “OK, I’m sorry; ppl didn’t like my process point, I’ll withdraw it.” #nycsc #ows

Tempchecking the FA. Proposer asks if people could be asked to leave the community instead of the movement. #nycsc #ows

Ronnie: “If we don’t follow the agreements, we should leave the movement. That requires an even greater sacrifice from us.” #nycsc #ows

OK, 2 minutes til we become some sort of self-propelling tuber, so we’re trying to wrap up stack ASAP. #nycsc #ows

Next, Jason. “I’m repeating myself: my concern is we’re out of time.” That’s it -ppl are basically chanting “vote”, which is weird. #nycsc

Nan is next. Sully: “I’m going to ask you: this is an outstanding concern or statement?” A: “Yes. If you need to remove someone, how will..”

Cont’d: “…you do that?” People reject this question; it’s implementation. Sully: “I feel we’ve already addressed tht as well as we can now.”

Proposal restated: “We’ll find the stolen font if we can, or replace it w/ artist’s work; we’ll apologize to congregation… we need to…”

Cont’d: “…change the dynamic, we need to hold people accountable, we need to be parts of working groups, we can’t just make empty promises..

She’s trying to figure out FAs: “The working group thing (not chores), de-escalation thing, 24-hour appeal process, and we need…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…to remove ourselves from the community if we break the agreements.” Sully: “OK, I’m going to ask the room; how do we feel?” #nycsc

Jake asks if we’re spokes, or individuals. Sully: “We’re still moving forward outside of spokes formation b/c we said we’d do this tht way.”

Blocks? 10 blocks. Ravi: “I <3 you guys, but we’ve in this community consensed on rules and changed them constantly in last 2 weeks.” #nycsc

Cont’d: “We have betrayed our word; ppl not on the housing list have been let in, because we dropped that rule. I do not believe that the..”

Cont’d: “..the community here has the moral or political strength to stick to the rules we agreed on. We can’t even stick in spokes to…”

Cont’d: “…things we all agreed on. Verbal altercations.” Doesn’t think we could give our word to this congregation. #nycsc #ows

Sully: “Is there an amendment that would allow you to remove your block?” A: “I don’t see how.” Folks: “She has somewhere to sleep tonight.”

Ravi: “I would like to first of all, say, I think personal attacks are really inappropriate. I was going to address that concern.” #nycsc

Cont’d; “There’s a friendly amendment on the table to ask the Pastor for 1 wk so we can create an exit strategy.” That would resolve block.

Proposer: “If we worked together for a week, followed every rule, could we bring it back?” Ravi is very skeptical… #nycsc #ows

Several of the blockers seem to feel the community consensus appeal process is a loophole. They want de-escalation to handle it. #nycsc

Jeff’s block: “The list of rules that were given to us were given to us by Rev Bob. I’ve seen this community come together to make…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…consensus to overturn the rules given by Bob, the landlord.” Doesn’t find that tenable. #nycsc #OWS

Proposer says that once a rule is broken, they’re out. But consensus is to resolve grey areas. Sully: “Can we clarify that the consensus..”

Cont’d: “…process is only for determining if a violation has occurred?” Yes. Jeff is possibly appeased. #nycsc #ows

Next Block: “I’ll remove my block if Spokescouncil will also go along with these guidelines.” Folks observe we’re not really SC right now…

Sully: “To clarify, we are still the Spokescouncil; we’re not meeting in Spokescouncil mode.” Hmmm. #nycsc #ows

Moving to next block. Jose, Medics: “I’ll continue tonight to help finding housing for ppl in this community. I think it’s a basic human…”

Cont’d: “…right. I think we need to take a step back and check what we’re doing. We’re talking about housing 100 people. I came here..”

Cont’d: “…to radically change the world. I want to develop housing as a human right for all.” Has safety concerns with providing services…

Cont’d: …in this way. “We can’t keep trying to service housing in this way,” yanking it out from under them. Hook them up w/ existing…

Cont’d: …resources, and “although they do it horribly, let’s organize to change that. Let’s stop harming people; that’s my sense.” #nycsc

Cont’d: “We’re not helping people by providing this space for a limited period of time, so I’ll block this.” #nycsc #ows

Jose also notes that he’d be interested in an exit strategy. Next, “I admire dedication and activism of those in housing…” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “…but this project is enabling the utter selfishness of some people and is damaging the movement.” #nycsc #ows

Lopi’s block is about “accountability, which is very close to consequences. If you do not face consequences you’re not being accountable.”

Cont’d; “If I don’t lock my bike up, my bike is stolen. I don’t have some daddy to get me a new bike. I have to face consequences.” #nycsc

Cont;d: “The situation wasn’t set up so this could happen, and people need to be accountable. The consequence is, we can’t have space.”

Cont’d: “The exit strategy for a week; I can try to find housing. That’s it.” #nycsc #ows

Nan’s block. “The reason I’m blocking– I have a very moral ethical concern; I don’t know what the process is we should be using.” #nycsc

If they can explain the exclusion process to her, “I’ll stand by.” But in the meantime, blocking. #nycsc #ows

Dovid, nearby me, quietly: “She has a moral, ethical concern to holding people to a moral, ethical standard.” #nycsc #ows

Next block points out that due process “of investigating what is actually occurring” needs to be established to avoid witch hunts. #nycsc

“If it’s clear, they’ve violated the rules consistently, at that point we’d try to help them understand that so they can leave on their…”

Cont’d: “…own merits. If they won’t leave on their own merits, then we may remove them as a threat to the community.” #nycsc #ows

Sorry, that was not a block; it was De-Escalation addressing Nan’s concern. Sully asks if it satisfies Nan’s block. Nan is worried by…

Cont’d: …the language “threat to the community.” “That worries me. How can you know they’re a threat if they choose not to move?” #nycsc

De-escalation gives examples: “If you’re making verbal threats, have weapons on you, pushed someone down stairs,” that makes them a threat.

Proposer says “I would accept a 2-week exit strategy for this place.” Sully says he understands that this removes several blocks. #nycsc

Sully: “I’m redoing the process; there’s an amendment that sets a 2-week exit strategy. How does room feel about proposal in its…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…newly-revised state?” Sully says it looks super mixed. “Are there any blocks to this proposal?” Nan: “I’m blocking.” #nycsc #ows

Many voices in unified dismay: “Why is she blocking???” [Tragically cute, like Bambi by the roadside… -Ed.] #nycsc #ows

Sully: “The proposal is the exact same proposal we just had, plus an amendment the says we’re only staying for 2 weeks…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…and over the course of it, we’ll develop an exit strategy that avoids people just instantly being left out in cold.” #nycsc #ows

Sully: “That 2 weeks is to allow for a plan to figure out what happens afterwards.” Someone clarifies: Jose: “For me to be comfortable…”

Cont’d: “…with this, this is not just 2 weeks to recreate this clusterfuck in another space. I think we should be very clear that…” #nycsc

Cont’d: “…we leave this space 2 weeks from today, and we don’t re-enter another space until this body decides how we’re going to do that…”

Cont’d: “…and why we’re going to do that.” Specifically rules out people autonomously going to find housing and “calling that #OWS.” #nycsc

The proposer accepts that. Next block: “2 weeks is too long. I want one week.” Yikes. #nycsc #ows

Room very tense; it’s like the last 2 minutes of a Celtics-Lakers game… and yes, that’s a regrettably applicable metaphor. #nycsc #ows

(#NYCSC is still continuing over at @LibertySqGA3! Very intense right now.) #nycsc #ows

Another block is very personal, requests that Jeff & the proposer not be involved in the de-escalation. It’s accepted; block removed? #nycsc

Next, Archives: “Everything that’s happened in the churches and shelters is humiliating, embarrassing to movement as a whole.” #nycsc

Cont’d: “And as we keep prolonging this for another 2 weeks, what is going to happen? I’m embarrassed b/c of what’s happened in Housing.”

Cont’d: “Extenuating it for another 2 weeks — I don’t think we have to do that. I think 1 week is enough.” Holding block. #nycsc #ows

Sully asks what amendment would get her to remove it, she says 1 week. Proposer says it would be almost impossible to do for 100 ppl. #nycsc

P: “I’m asking for 2 weeks, in consideration of how many people have jobs and can’t meet all the time.” No, blocker stands. #nycsc

Anthony’s block: “We’re all being selfish here.” Feels we’ve really done poorly to spaces. “We’re not coming up with solutions.” #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: “You’ve let lots of people yelling slide; when some ppl have tried to make sense out of process, you’ve shut them down.” #nycsc

Anthony tells us that he finds places to sleep. “We should be more damn resourceful! We’re activists.” Notes that we might need to…

Cont’d: …help sm people find a place to sleep who *need* to be under a roof, but others cn find a way. “The E train is warm all damn night.”

Cont’d: “I don’t want to see this fall apart .” Sully asks him if anything wld remove his block. “Nothing I’ve heard, unfortunately.” #nycsc

Sully prepares to move to modified consensus. “At this point, consensus has failed. We weren’t able to reach consensus. So now we’re…”

Cont’d: “…asking people to vote whether they’re for or against this proposal. If 90% are in favor, it will pass, in spite of the blocks.”

Sully: “Now I’d like all those in favor to please raise their hands.” Counting… #nycsc #ows

Not sure about official # of yeses yet. Now asking how many are opposed… #nycsc #ows

Sully: “We’re 81 in favor, and 7 opposed. It does pass by 9/10ths consensus.” Cheers from many! “We’re out of time, we need to leave.”#nycsc

OK fam! That’s it for tonite’s #NYCSC! Thanks for following along. Lots of interesting developments tonight. Peace and love and #solidarity.

[Any questions, comments, concerns, e-drink tokens, co-option attempts and missing baptismal basins, hit me up @diceytroop. Thx fam! -Ed.]

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