Tweets for Mon, 06 Feb 2012

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Hey fam! We are live at the #NYCSC.

Reportbacks: Occupy Farms: If you want to get your hands dirty, get out of the city, contact us! #nycsc #ows

Reportback: Outreach: Explaining how ComHub and InfoHub merged before the eviction but have realized have different goals. #nycsc #ows

Outreach saying InfoHub will now be “Occupy Information” and ComHub will split off. #nycsc #ows

Outreach: We are having an Occupy Town Square on Feb. 11, after the success of the Town Square at Washington Square Park. 1-5 at 86th Street

Now, first proposal: From Women Occupying Wall Street (WOW.) #nycsc #ows

The WOW proposal: #nycsc #ows

Breakout for spokes to discuss among themselves the WOW proposal.

Melanie, repping WOW: The idea is we make this decision together.

Now taking clarifying questions about the WOW proposal.

WOW: There is a lot of dialogue happening with other groups. The idea is for this to come from all of us.

DAP: We’re wondering why we don’t spend time talking about his every other Friday, like we’re supposed to.

WOW: The idea is this works with that, but the proposal is to do this in addition to those meetings.

DAP: Why do you feel we need to spend times at our meetings doing this instead of meetings specifically for that?

WOW: We spend a lot of time at our meetings dealing with this. We are being asked to only talk about business …

WOW: There’s no space for us to talk about emotion.

New CQ: What is the goal? What is the objective? #nycsc #ows

WOW: I think us coming up with it [a grievance council] as a community, will make us feel better about it. #nycsc #ows

David (Facilitation): A suggestion, we do this week-by-week, and evaluate as we go. #nycsc #ows

Stairs (Negesti): That sounds like a friendly amendment, so please wait for that time.

New CQ: Have there been discussions with Safer Spaces about having a Grievance Council more often?

WOW: I’m not asking for a Grievance Council, I’m asking for us to come to one.

CQ: Do you understand there is a Grievance Council currently?

WOW: We should ask the group, because I am not aware that we have one.

WOW: Please, enlighten me, because if there is a Grievance Council, how do we come to it if we don’t know it exists?

Stairs asking to cut down the side conversations.

CQ from Minutes: What is the difference between a Grievance Council and Open Spaces?

WOW: We wouldn’t be waiting for a weekly Grievance Council meeting, and wouldn’t have to go to Open Spaces to talk about it.

WOW: It wouldn’t be another meeting we have to go to, another Google group, but we’d discuss it here.

CQ from Accounting: Is there there/what groups exist currently to discuss grievances b/w people and groups in #OWS?

Stairs: There’s a way to discuss this, it’s through points of information.

Discussion between stairs and someone who is not a spoke.

POI from Sage: We have mediation, Safer Spaces, 3 or 4 working groups like gossip …

Stairs (Negesti) seeing a lot of emotion and wants to take a moment to work it out, take a deep breath.

POI from Safer Spaces: The Open Spaces is only every other week. We have been holding Grievance Circles on the off-Fridays.

WOW: If there is indeed a functioning Grievance Circle happening, why does the community not know about it? #nycsc #ows

Stairs trying to stop the back-and-forth between Melanie from WOW and Sage. #nycsc #ows

WOW: I’ve been to the Friday meetings and the Community Agreements were worked on … it took 3 months for them to come to us. #nycsc #ows

WOW:… we still have not agreed on the Community Agreements. I feel it’s because we still don’t have community buy-in. #nycsc #ows

Melanie seems willing to table this proposal. Negesti encourages her to speak with her group. #nycsc #ows

Ravi jumps in to further explain the idea behind this proposal. #nycsc #ows

WOW from Ravi: We will table this if the Safer Spaces Grievance Council proposal is moving along.

Stairs asks if anyone has information on how the Grievance Council is progressing. #nycsc #ows

POI: This process takes a long time, and instead of divergent tracks, I’d like to integrate this into the work that’s happening.

Stairs: Ok, we are not going to table this. We are going to continue with stack.

Sage offers Facilitation feedback and Stairs says this is not the time for that. [Btw, “Stairs” = Facilitators]

Proposers discussing what they want to do.

@emst, as Stairs, announces proposers have decided to table the proposal from WOW.

Stairs: The space has asked that we respect this is a church that we are in.

Sorry, there are disruptions and it’s not clear what’s going on.

Sean just asked someone not to call the facilitator “sweetheart” when we were just listening to the Women’s Caucus.

Lots of commotion around Sage confronting Negesti (stairs).

Now, Jose from Medics Street Team. Says their budget required them to come back at 4 weeks and do a report.

… Even though it never made it into the minutes. Out of their own transparency, they are here.

All their expenses are on in past proposals, and their full budget is on

Jose now detailing Street Medics budget. Evenly spent on supplies, Metrocards, patient transport, and food. #nycsc #ows

Jose from Street Medics say they often pay just for a sandwich for patients, because many patients can’t even afford that. #nycsc #ows

Jose from Medics explaining that people have gone to various trainings around the East Coast and used money on jail support.

Jose from Medics: Wants to get feedback about budget and wonders about how his WG doesn’t get Metrocards.

Jose from Medics: Would like group to authorize them getting money in a lump sum every month, not have to come back to SC all the time.

Jose from Medics: Another reason for a monthly budget is if we don’t use money in a week, we lose it. Want to plan larger scale.

Starting stack for questions about their budget. Stairs clarifying if he wants a formal budget proposal.

Jose just wants feedback from people, not necessarily a proposal.

Kitchen: It seems like you spend a lot on transportation. Would it be helpful if there was a WG or someone with cheaper transportation?

Street Medics: Definitely. It would be helpful if there were someone within OWS with a van or something. We also need emergency transport.

Direct Action CQ: It would be helpful if we could know your needs. #nycsc #ows

Street Medics: Food, a convergence space–a place to prepare herbal medicine, to rest, to come together– and transport.

Direct Action: Are these things you are adding on to the budget?

Street Medics: We have enough money for now, these are not on top of what we are already spending on.

Structure: Is it possible we can change whatever rule is preventing you guys from getting Metrocards?

Structure: And how is the loss of the Office affecting you guys?

Street Medics: We have clinics at Charlotte’s place. We try to Dumpster and support local farms.

DAP: If you want to donate food to you, how do we do so?

Street Medics:

Street Medics asking to get Metrocards and to get their budgeted money a month at a time. #nycsc #ows

Spokes now conferring on this proposal. #nycsc #ows

Opening stack on clarifying questions about the Street Medics proposal. #nycsc #ows

Sorry, Stairs clarifies it’s “feedback,” not clarifying questions.

Town Planning: Wants that this budget for the future be properly resubmitted, and transportation expenses detailed.

Outreach: Our concern is about getting the money monthly, in part because having such a large sum of money per month = not a good idea.

Street Medics: The biggest concern is there are often large expenses that come up not very regularly. …#nycsc #ows

Street Medics: And we are operating on “use it or lose it” budgeting, which doesn’t work for us. #nycsc #ows

Street Medics: It’s not that we want to withdraw that money all at once, but we have access to it.

Stack is closed so moving on to proposal from Class War. #nycsc #ows

Class War: Proposal is to 1) make it so that both operation and movement groups have voice in the Spokes Council. #nycsc #ows

Class War: 2) To clarify the difference between an operational and a movement group. #nycsc #ows

The full proposal from Class War: #nycsc #ows

Getting POPs from people confused about why we moved off from Medics proposal so quickly.

CQ: What are you asking this body to do? #nycsc #ows

Class War: Change the way this body operates and how working groups are defined.

Someone brings up that they wanted to talk about violence versus nonviolence on the agenda. #nycsc #ows

Proposer says he just talked to someone doing his proposal but better, so is tabling. #nycsc #ows

Apparently Women Occupying Nations had a proposal up tonight, but didn’t show. #nycsc #ows

Now, Lopi, representing DAP, bringing discussion about violence. #nycsc #ows

DAP: Earlier tonight on WBAI some people representing OWS said we do not stand for nonviolence. #nycsc #ows

DAP: If you look on NYCGA website, under Principles of Solidarity, it clearly says we are a nonviolent movement. #nycsc #ows

DAP: Is now reading from the Statement of Autonomy. #nycsc #ows

Stairs trying to facilitate discussion. Suggests smaller breakout groups. Lopi says she is just bringing topic for discussion. #nycsc #ows

Stairs clarifies that we are going to start having conversation about violence. [Ed: Only 20 mins left; not enough time for this convo.]

DAP, Lopi, trying to clarify her position. Some people start yelling. #nycsc #ows

Stairs temp checks on getting into breakout groups. Looks negative. #nycsc #ows

So, no breakout groups. Opening stack on discussing this. #nycsc #ows

Direct Action: “Never has it passed in GA that the words ‘We are a nonviolent movement’ have been consensed upon.” #nycsc #ows

Direct Action: People are not saying we are a violent movement, just that we are not necessarily nonviolent.

Direct Action: It would be hypocritical for us to think that nonviolence is the only way for us to get our word out.

Direct Action references other global movements, Egypt, etc. to try to prove violence is sometimes necessary.

Town Planning (Robert): Says he doesn’t want to be in any movement that uses violence. Reads from Principles of Solidarity. #nycsc #ows

New speaker: People treat violence and nonviolence as if they are black and white, and they are not. #nycsc #ows

Same speaker: Is destruction violence? Is pacifism violence? #nycsc #ows

Solidarity: I think what Lopi was trying to say is how are we defining violence? We had this discussion about ppl throwing …

…beer bottles at police officers’ heads. We need to be clear about where the line is. #nycsc #ows

Solidarity: I think at some point a line needs to be drawn, that we say, “This is not what we stand for.” #nycsc #ows

Think Tank: I talk to a lot of people in the park outside the movement and the perception is if we say we are not a nonviolent movement …

… people would stop supporting us. #nycsc #ows

WOW (Melanie): If we chant we are a nonviolent movement but still have these small factions that are violent …

… I wouldn’t feel grateful if you’re throwing bottles next to me. I don’t want to be a shield. Don’t pretend you’re part of this movement.

DAP (Lopi) espousing the merits of nonviolence.

DAP (Lopi): I am all for direct action! I am all about that shit! But I’m not ready to say we don’t embrace nonviolence.

Accounting: I’m speaking for myself. But we have defined violence six different ways in this conversation. …

Accounting: Do we only stand in solidarity if I agree with your tactics? This is a question we all need to ask ourselves. #nycsc #ows

A little bit of a disruption.

Facilitation: The last 10 years ppl have been talking about diversity of tactics, which really means light property destruction ..

… not violence and not heavy property destruction. We should have conversations about what’s strategic and not. …

… I want to caution us that a lot of our friends have done years in jail for *talking* about property destruction. So be cognizant of that

Outreach (Ravi): Come and join us, let’s have these discussions. #nycsc #ows

OWS en Espanol: In America, we have plenty of firsthand experience with this. Violence is not cute. #nycsc #ows

OWS en Espanol: My father was tortured to death. That was violence. It affected my family. …#nycsc #ows

New speaker: There’s not a lot of people in #OWS who are throwing bottles at people’s heads. #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: Let’s stop saying there are elements within DA and within #OWS who think it’s okay to throw bottles at people. [much dissent]

Cont’d: It was individuals, individuals who are not in working groups, who are not here for this conversation. …

Cont’d: That being said, I would get between you if you are turning someone over to the police. [more disruptions and crosstalk]

Safer Spaces: This conversation has been about the actions we do and if they are violent or nonviolent, but history has shown that …

… we have been violent within the movement. Like these Councils, we have had a lot of violence. #nycsc #ows

Cont’d: I don’t know how we come off as nonviolent to the media when we have this going on here. #nycsc #ows

WOW (Melanie) points out a press release (?) that cites using “any means necessary.” #nycsc #ows

WOW: Thinks this is a solidarity document that was approved by GA.

Now some discussion about an individual taking pictures and if that’s okay. #nycsc #ows

Some calls to make the photographer delete his pics. [Ed: It’s a public, open meeting.] #nycsc #ows

Structure (Calvin) starting to talk but is being talked over.

David from Facilitation suggests we continue talking about this at Open Spaces on Friday.

That’s it, fam. Thanks for reading the tweets. This has been @CarrieM213 live tweeting another #OWS Spokes Council. Much love. #nycsc

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