Tweets for Fri, 30 Dec 2011

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@Occupier_942 @DiceyTroop @jopauca Thank you so much!

RT @Occupier_942: Just nominated @LibertySqGA ( @DiceyTroop @jopauca ) for an #OccupyTheTweets Award. Such dedication! Thanks! http://t. …

RT @DiceyTroop: @Occupier_942 @jopauca wow! thank you! It’s us and also @heratylaw, she’s another super-dedicated, frozen-fingered @Libe …

RT @OccupyBKGA: @LibertySqGA last night was big! Proposals on #OO new port action, legal action, bail funds, & more. Great to see #OWS c …

RT @jopauca: Big thanks to @_girlalex who brought me coffee and did some tweets tonight for @LibertySqGA! #YouAreAwesome

RT @jopauca: OWS Livestream Media’s Press Release on Thorin Caristo. More details tonight at Spokes. http://t.co/OSY1S71W

RT @OccupyWallStNYC: Some upcoming @NYC_GA proposals: http://t.co/2XCpucOn #ows cc: @OWSFacilitation @LibertySqGA

RT @OWScom: Spokes Councils at 7pm, tonight and for the foreseeable future at West Park Presbyterian Church.165 W 86th St,1/B/C to 86th …

RT @CarrieM213: FAIR WARNING: I am bringing to Spokes Council the sign-in from Wednesday. If you spoked then (for ANY group), you cannot …

RT @blackalaureate: one of OPD’s strategies to break up occupy crowds is to start “surgical arrests” to cause confusion (live at http:// …

RT @DiceyTroop: Anyone know where we can get a few hundred laser pointers? #needsoftheoccupiers #ows #imserioustho

Spokes begins soon! In the meantime, vote for us! RT @OccupyWallStNYC: Nominate some1 for the OccupyTheTweets award! http://t.co/NuIJnyp5

Hi there! About to start #NYCSC #SpokesCouncil. #nycsc #OWS

We extend a warm welcome to all of the law enforcement personnel who are monitoring this feed and who are attending #nycsc tonight. #ows

Discussing the fact that this space will not allow certain individuals into the space because they violate space’s guidelines. #nycsc #OWS

Please note that #nycsc was “disinvited” from 56 Walker because of the disruptions. #nycsc #OWS

“We are civilized, we shld have ability to have a discussion… those ppl are disrespectful, hateful…. Ppl leave because of them.” #nycsc

… Let’s respect the space’s decision. #nycsc #OWS

Comment: “We are in someone else’s space, and we always will be, we will need to abide by their rules.” #nycsc #OWS

Comment: “Even when we’re in a public space, there are rules we need to abide by. They’re called laws.” #nycsc #OWS

Comment: “We’ve made a lot of rules for ourselves and we haven’t been able to keep those, enforce them” #nycsc #OWS

… “In the end, we have thse rules already” #nycsc #OWS

Comment: “Charter says that we need to come to consensus about who we want to exclude, so we shld start that process” #nycsc #OWS

… “And if there will be other rules, we should know about them.” #nycsc #OWS

Stairs comments that the ban was based on behavior from Wednesday’s #Spokescouncil. #nycsc #OWS

By the way, Anthony and Robbie have asked for our consent for them to facilitate and we uptwinked. #nycsc #OWS

Stairs: We only have till the 2nd of January to move from our old space, to this one #nycsc #OWS

Stairs: Pastor Bob is very excited to have us here at West Park Presbyterian. #nycsc #OWS

Stairs: Since we are creating community agreements, it’s very clear that Spokes must change .. #nycsc #OWS

Stairs: .. in the way we communicate w/ one another. The pastor was here the 1st night and left #nycsc #OWS

Stairs:…this is a private space and the pastor does not want disruptions here. That is why 3 people arent allowed to come here #nycsc #OWS

Stairs: Nan, Sage, and Trish have been barred from coming. #nycsc #OWS

Stack: Can you be more clear on who is not allowed in? #nycsc #OWS

Stairs: Nan, Sage, Trish, a guy from Philly, and one scary looking dude who’s name i dont know. #nycsc #OWS

Stack: Who are the people outing these names? #nycsc #OWS

Stairs: The people who will be moving into this space and those hosting us. #nycsc #OWS

When the tweets stop flowing, click over to @libersqga2, @libertysqga3, and @libertysqga4 for moar!

Stack: Can you please raise your hand if youve ever walked out here in tears or disappointment? #nycsc #OWS

(About 20-25 people raise their hand. There are about 60-70 people here) #nycsc #OWS

Stack: My concern is that the people hosting us never made us aware of their guidelines. What are they? #nycsc #OWS

Stack: And also, that we’re not being quite transparent in this process. #nycsc #OWS

Stack: Hi. I also think we should tell the people banned, face to face, why they’ve been banned. #nycsc #OWS

PoI: We would like facilitation to not inject any personal reasons here. You’re here to facilitate #nycsc #OWS

Stack: Sure, we might not be able to co exist with them, but i dont think we should exclude these people. #nycsc #OWS

PoI: This is NYC and space is not just a commodity, it’s the commodity. #nycsc #OWS

PoI: It’s really difficult to find a space in Manhattan to accommodate what we want to do. #nycsc #OWS

PoP: someone notes that Stairs may be overstepping their bounds (they are supposed to be neutral). Stairs notes that they were providing PoI

CQ: the person who said they don’t agree with the space’s rules: “Do you have an alternative space?” No. #nycsc #ows

Facilitation WG: If we are going to ban ppl, it should be our decision. #nycsc #ows

… “If we’re going to make a decision about certain individuals, we shld give them our reasons.” #nycsc #ows

Comment: “We’re herer discussing these thing, yes disruptors shld be addressed, maybe we shldn’t be in any space if we can’t…” #nycsc #ows

… agree to a space’s rules.” #nycsc #ows

Comment: “I don’t think this is a closed mtg, it’s closed to ppl who have done something to be excluded.” #nycsc #ows

Comment: On the one hand, I think many ppl here have been terrified by some of the things that they have done… #nycsc #ows

… but I’m still sensitive to mental health issues, etc. But our charter gives us the right to exclude ppl. If don’t feel comfortable…

… continuing unless we address this as an agenda item. #nycsc #ows (not: it appears that we are having a discussion now…)

Comment: “I feel like I’m in the middle of a blackball situation. Is there a better way to explain our frustration and try to fix that?”

… “We cld be in Zuccotti Park right now, all of us.” #nycsc #ows

Comment: “I’m of two minds. I’m uncomfortable, because of the issue of agency & authority that is not transparent… #nycsc #ows

… That’s not a comfortable place. OTOH, I see how ppl need to be asked to leave, directly. Strong believer that we need to censure…

… ppl who are continually out of whack. OTOH, we are where we are right now, we should proceed with this & get the guidelines down. #nycsc

…. Maybe we should have a re-wind and start fresh with a set of guidelines.” #nycsc #ows

PoI: We have had many guidelines, none enforced because the process has been so disrupted every time we try to address. #nycsc #ows

PoI: If we are not a ratified #SpokesCouncil , then anything we come up with is not valid. #nycsc #ows

Comment: “This is not closed because they haven’t said that nobody can come in, they have pointed at certain ppl who can’t. #nycsc #ows

… If we have guidelines, and haven’t been enforcing them, then that is up to us. It’s a lesson to us. #nycsc #ows

… It’s not just three ppl when 50 ppl are arguing. #nycsc #ows

Comment: It seems we have 2 different things going on: 1. do we stay here in this space? 2. do we decide guidelines & process for… #nycsc

… removing disruptors? #nycsc #ows

… If we choose not to exclude, then we are choosing to not be in this space, b/c the space is excluding those ppl. #nycsc #ows

… Those 3 ppl provoke everyone else, we can deal as a group in a productive, civil way when those ppl are not here. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I heard this was going to happen and I can’t believe; It’s not the part that excludes ppl that is the problem… #nycsc #ows

… we should expect that if we are in other ppl’s spaces, they might [constructively] exclude ppl. But what alarms me is that… #nycsc

… these things are what we as a movement are against. I blame us for not acting for ourselves. #nycsc #ows

Comment: 2 things going on. 1 We need to have a proposal/conversation about what we are, what decisions we’ll be making. #nycsc #ows

… And we need to talk about disruptors. They are not just here, they are in WG meetings, too. #nycsc #ows

… We haven’t been making this decision for a really long time. We knew that someone else was going to make it for us… #nycsc #ows

… We shld approach the space with solutions we’re comfortable with & if the space isn’t comfortable with them, we find new space. #nycsc

OK, done with stack. Stairs: Let me re-phrase what I have been hearing and what has been discussed, and then if the group wants… #nycsc

… to proceed, it is up to them. #nycsc #ows

Comment: Why is Stairs talking about the proposal? (Note: what proposal? We’re discussing issue but I don’t think a proposal is up.) #nycsc

Stairs: – If someone is going to be excluded, they shld be excluded by us. – We have community agreements, but no enforcement tool. #nycsc

- Ppl are against excluding ppl that aren’t following the rules. – Mandate says we can exclude ppl but doesn’t say how. We need to come up..

… w how. – What I am hearing is that the group is not comfortable with the fact that this decision was not made by us. #nycsc #ows

… We need to make a decision about how we are going to be using this space right now. #nycsc #ows

… Whatever decisions we make here need to be in accordance with our mandate. #nycsc #ows

Discussion regarding what we shld be discussing/doing now about this… #nycsc #ows

Comment: Before we proceed, we shld let the excluded ppl in (audible boos/also letting them in isn’t our choice right now). #nycsc #ows

… They should all be here for this discussion. #nycsc #ows

PoI: They can’t come back here. (Noted!) #nycsc #ows

… We’d have to leave and do this. #nycsc #ows

PoP: If we’re going to consense on a proposal, we shld hear all of the proposals. #nycsc #ows

Comment: If we haven’t formed as a #SpokesCouncil, then we’re just a group of ppl having a discussion, so I propose we close..

… Spokescouncil and have a discussion as a group. #nycsc #ows

Comment: We should divide the time on whether this is a formed #SC, and the other time on how to deal with excluding/enforcement. #nycsc

… and maybe that should be a #GA proposal anyway. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I don’t care if this is a #GA, an #SC, or a group. If we’re able to kick ppl out, we need to do so by consensus, and… #nycsc #ows

… and when we’ve ever tried to come to consensus on this, it’s been been disrupted! #nycsc #ows

Comment: He read my mind. #nycsc #ows

Comment: When we come to an agreement on how to formulate a way to deal with this, we need to explain it to them explicitly. #nycsc #ows

PoP: Can we have a time limit? Lots of ppl on stack and we want to hear as many voices as possible. #nycsc #ows

Comment: All of the proposals that involve bringing them into this space, we can’t do that. So… those wldn’t work? #nycsc #ows

Comment: If we invite any of those ppl into this space, we run the risk of being disinvited. Maybe at some point we can… #nycsc #ows

… re-approach the space about it. #nycsc #ows

Comment: If we don’t want to participate in this space, go to another space, I heard we’re only looking in Manhattan… I don’t know why.

… why can’t we go to Brooklyn, Queens? #nycsc #ows

PoI: Mandate requires that we’re indoors. #nycsc #ows

Comment: We’ve heard a lot of ideas. SC has been hopeful at time, frustrating at times. We need to work as a grp to come up w a tool. #nycsc

Comment: Also, #Zuccotti is limited to ppl who don’t have bags. #nycsc #ows

Stairs: We need to address whether we are operating as a #SpokesCouncil. Until we make that decision, I don’t know how we proceed. #nycsc

Comment: What can we do now so we can leave here as a #SpokesCouncil? #nycsc #ows

Stairs: The WGs need to be ratified to be part of #SpokesCouncil. #nycsc #ows

PoI: We can declare us whatever we want, we just need to agree to make that declaration. #nycsc #ows

PoP: To help keep this moving, can we stop using PoIs to jump stack? #nycsc #ows

Stairs: (something I cldn’t hear b/c ppl next to me keep talking. hello!) #nycsc #ows

(@blogdiva someone speaking out of stack)

Comment: Something to consider: If we’re going to “be better” that the society we’re in, we need an ethical process. #nycsc #ows

… Maybe we need a mini-process/arbitration to address the ppl directly. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I’m going to lay my head here. If #SC is going to jeopardize ppl sleeping here, they shld leave, not have disruptors here. #nycsc

Comment: If everyone agrees that 1 person has disrupted so many times, the enforcement is difficult b/c ppl will need to be at the door…

… physically excluding ppl, and that’s a tough position to be. But if this is seen as a disruptive space, this won’t grow, it will shrink.

… there needs to be a compromise. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I don’t think it’s outside of being inclusive if you’ve given ppl multiple chances. To function in grps, you need to produce…

… positive outcomes. If someone is producing mostly negative outcomes, that needs to be dealt with. #nycsc #ows

Comment: We are an open, civil society. Just b/c we excluded ppl doesn’t mean we’re closed. Do we have suicidal tendencies? We need to…

… have a method to remove the destructive ppl. #nycsc #ows

Comment: We are all having a civil discussion now, and when ppl start shouting, I feel like my voice is worth less… #nycsc #ows

… whatever mechanisms we have to exclude those ppl, it needs to be in a way that is not disruptive. We’ve tried to exclude… #nycsc #ows

… before, but it devolves into a shouting match. #nycsc #ows

Comment: Technically, we are not a #SpokesCouncil (?). Can’t we come to an agreement as a group of ppl and approach this space? #nycsc #ows

Comment: This is the 2nd (friday) in a month that we’ve had a civil, productive experience. Maybe we need a different mtg for Fridays…

… instead of #SpokesCouncil. #nycsc #ows

Pop: All these voices are wonderful but we’re hearing the same things over and over, can we come to a consensus on the 2 issues. #nycsc #ows

@blogdiva STOP YELLING AT ME!!!! ;)

Comment: I’ve been to a lot of meetings about trying to form a #SpokesCouncil. Maybe we need to say that we can’t do it…. #nycsc #ows

… Sometimes it feels good, and then sometimes I wonder why we’re wasting our time. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I agree with what was just said. I’m a teacher, I have experience w disruptive ppl. It’s necessary to remove disruptive ppl…

… for the good of the whole. #nycsc #ows

We’ve moved to @libertysqga2!

… There should be a process to re-integrate them, not comfortable w being “banned for life” #nycsc #ows

Comment: We talked about exile, we need to talk to the person. Someone suggested we shld have 3 #GA a week and that’s a good idea. #nycsc

… We shld have a discussion about what a #SpokesCouncil shld be, and… (whoa, he is talking sooooooo fast) #nycsc #ows

… best ideas rise to the top. I love you guys. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I don’t see a lot of functionality here, consensus is a wonderful thing but direct democracy needs a fallback to get moving. #nycsc

… a movement needs to move. This isn’t abt me, it’s about not alienating ppl who want to participate, but can’t. Not respectful to be…

… be spending so much time on this when there are ppl preventing others from doing good. Because that is there mission: to prevent good.

Comment: I’m w Facilitation, we bear the brunt of the disruption. We want tools, but they need to be tools that are in keeping w our values.

… what is to be gained is a nice, functional #SpokesCouncil. What is to be lost is that these problems are just going to go back to #GA.

… That causes me concern, because I think they will be more disruptive at #GA, and that’s a serious safety concern. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I don’t think it’s a bad thing to work on a process & protocol to deal w these types of things. I think we need to…

… agree to a statement about what happened tonight. Wasn’t sure if we ran the risk of getting kicked out or wld be kicked out. #nycsc #ows

Commment: But you’re not running the risk of #SC getting kicked out, yr running the risk of 100 ppl not being able to sleep here. #nycsc

Comment: I hear that we want to get things done tonight. 1. Disruption can be abusive, as well as unsafe. 2. We need to talk about how to…

… deal with the disruption, together as a group. #nycsc #ows

Comment: We formed the #SpokesCouncil in order to deal with things that were difficult to deal with at #GA. The disruptors… #nycsc #ows

… came to an agreement to disrupt #SpokesCouncil because they did not like it. They’ve succeeded! #nycsc #ows

… We already have a process for exclusion. It involved a temp check on whether ppl were being disruptive & going to mediation. #nycsc #ows

Comment: Just wondering, if we’re not a #SpokesCouncil, why are we doing this? #nycsc #ows

Comment: I don’t feel like we’re using our movement properly. We’re not using the tools that we have. #nycsc #ows

… We’re talking about structural reform. We have WGs, but it doesn’t seem integrated. I don’t understand. #nycsc #ows

… So if we want to be serious about getting past these issues, let’s use the tools we already have, please. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I don’t feel I’m wasting my time, I’ve grown to trust everybody in this room, knowing they r trying to be as inclusive as possible.

… In growing to trust this room, I also trust that we wld not come up with rules that we wldn’t want to live by ourselves. #nycsc #ows

… I wldn’t agree to a rule that I cldn’t live with. To say this is waste, I don’t agree. We’re in a critical time. We can’t just sit…

… here and wait while our desire for inclusiveness destroys us. #nycsc #ows

Comment: I wanted to propose that for the next week, all we do is hear props on what we’re going to be doing as #SC, and to ratify #SC.

… And try to come up with tools to deal with the disruptors, letting them know what we have a way of dealing w this. Need to… #nycsc

… to let them know what they did or didn’t do, it seems wrong. #nycsc #ows

RT @misosusanowa: @LibertySqGA2 [comment] The 1st & 2nd Constitutional Congesses took 11 months to produce the Declaration. No rush. #ows

Stairs; I’m hearing a lot of frustration that these dialogs are preventing action. We’re a group of individuals. Here are some… #nycsc

… actions that we can take. – If we are going to have a process to exclude ppl, they need to be addressed. #nycsc #ows

- We shld adopt the “edmonton” sign about disruptors. (No! someone says) (Stairs: that’s the feedback we heard). #nycsc #ows

@grrrlrob Moved to @LibertySqGA2

don’t forget, if @LibertySqGA gets topped out, we move to @LibertySqGA2, then @LibertySqGA3, then @LibertySqGA4. please re-tweet

(general discussion now)

Employee from building is here w an idea on how to re-occupy wall street. #nyscs #ows

OK, so that happened! #nyscs #ows

Stairs: How does this group want to proceed w this meeting? #nyscs #ows

Comment: We acknowledge that we are a grp of individuals and that our decisions are as a group of individuals. #nyscs #ows

Comment: We have tools (principles of solidarity, community agreements, etc). We just need a system of enforcement. #nyscs #ows

(FWIW, there are a ton of ppl saying the same thing, I’m paraphrasing and sometimes not relating it if it’s been said 5x already.) #nyscs

RT @dontbeaputz: The NYPD just came and left. They explained to Nan that she had to go. No yelling. Nan calmly left. Looking forward to …

Comment: I think a crucial step might be missing. PoC asked us to avoid a system that resembles our current justice system. #nyscs #ows

… System should be used to address the frustration, but avoid excluding. #nyscs #ows

… We need a 3rd branch/voice to hold us accountable. (sorry, missed some of those details). #nyscs #ows

Comment: I think it’s premature to judge #SpokesCouncil, because we’ve spent so much time dealing with the disruptors, we haven’t… #nyscs

… been able to deal with anything else. #nyscs #ows

Comment: If we start having discussion about non-punitive ways of dealing, that will take years. It is almost impossible to come up with 1.

… Also, a 3rd branch may create a hierarchy. To have accountability, it shld apply to all mtgs, #GA, #SC, #Wg s. #nyscs #ows

Proposal: I came here not knowing anyone wld be banned. On Monday, we meet at an open location and discuss the banning to keep things legit.

No, we don’t have anything to do with that. RT@OurFadedGarden: @LibertySqGA2 Do you know if the livesteam is going to be coming back up?

Comment: Ppl keep saying we’re not a #SpokesCouncil, as if it’s fact! But that’s not a fact. We’re a group, the process isn’t that rigid.

… It’s the rigidity of the process that allows them to disrupt. They want us to fail, and we are letting them do that. #nyscs #ows

Comment: The only reason ppl here say we’re not a #SpokesCouncil is b/c those disruptors have said it so many times, we’ve believed it! …

… We have already functioned successfully as a #SpokesCouncil (lists all the #SpokesCouncil-y things we’ve done). #nyscs #ows

Comment: Glad we’re all here. How we work together is evolving. It wld be great to talk about organization theory more. Different models.

Comment: We have process to deal w/ disruption, not to enforce. The #GA has empowered us why don’t we ask the #GA to decide to exclude them?

Comment: It seems to need to address the issue of a 3rd party excluding ppl. #nyscs #ows

Comment: You have the power to make the decision to make this group effective (and to ratify ourself as a #SpokesCouncil). #nyscs #ows

Mgr of space: I want to welcome you hear, I have a great deal of respect for you. I’m glad to help. This bldg was empty for 3 yrs…

… we envision a community of communities. This is home of sweatshop-free movement. My responsibility is not just to you, but to other…

… to other groups that use this space. We ask that ppl share our values and desire to cooperate as a community… #nyscs #ows

… This is a fragile human ecosystem. Safety is a very strong concern, we need to emphasize that for everyone. #nyscs #ows

We need you to operate as part of a community of communities. Thank you very much. #nyscs #ows

Stairs: We’re opening stack for proposed agenda items for Monday’s #SpokesCouncil. #nyscs #ows

Proposal: empower a break-out group to find a space for Monday that will allow everyone in. #nyscs #ows

Proposal: moderated discussion about our roles. #nyscs #ows

Proposal: we ratify ourselves! #nyscs #ows

Proposal: 1. proceed w discussion of membership; but first 2. there will be no additional placards added. #nyscs #ows

… start ball rolling, nominate housing for membership. #nyscs #ows

@OWSLibrary Nope…

… and make a decision on legitimacy on certain working groups. #nyscs #ows

Proposal: SC shld be deciding campaigns/direct actions with all our working groups here. #nyscs #ows

… so on Monday, can we discuss a solidarity action? We’re able to do this, we just haven’t yet! #nyscs #ows

PoI: This is an operational #SpokesCouncil, there is a Movement #SpokesCouncil that DA/Movement Building is part of. #nyscs #ows

Proposal: Better way of dealing w disruptors, etc. #nyscs #ows

(Please note, these are proposed agenda items for Monday’s #SpokesCouncil) #nyscs #ows

Looks like we’re wrapping up. Darrel, Nicholas, Zach all randomly wandering into facilitation’s space. #nyscs #ows

PoI: It seems like the first agenda item on monday would be ratifying #SpokesCouncil, so everything after that is “legit”. #nyscs #ows

OK folks, looks like things are wrapping up. Have a g’night folks, and happy new year! #nyscs #ows

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