Proposal to start a zeitgeist working group within OWS.

Posted by & filed under Assemblies, Past Proposals.

We at the Zeitgeist Movement share the Occupy Wall Street movement’s sense of urgency with regard to the ever-widening wealth gap, the endless wars, the purchasing of legislation, rising unemployment, and the general unsustainability of the current economic model.  As a solution, we support the formation of a global, resource based economy where technology (which already exists) would be used to provide the necessities of life and relief from labor for all the world’s people without a monetary cost and, in fact, without a monetary system at all.  Decisions about social concerns would be arrived at using the scientific method and would take into account the carrying capacity of the earth.  The Zeitgeist working group seeks to create critical mass and bring about the changes humanity needs to make to save itself.


10 Responses to “Proposal to start a zeitgeist working group within OWS.”

  1. David Buccola

    The fact that your movement is undemocratic, hierarchical and pretends to have all the answers is a major concern. From your website:

    “TZM does not condone total, open mob rule democracy…”

    I should point out that “mob rule” is a phrase coined by the 1% to demonize democracy. Later in the FAQ there is this gem regarding the resolving of disputes within TMZ:

    “If the argument cannot be quantified in some manner – it isn’t valid as an argument.”

    Wow! Many arguments cannot be quantified. Cases of sexual assault often lack any “evidence” and it’s clear from reading your FAQ that in that case a victim of rape would simply have an “invalid argument.” Not cool; definitely not compatible with OWS ethics and our desire to create a more transformative form of justice.

    I could go on but I strongly urge other members of our community to read the FAQ at There is little there to incline me to believe that the goals and aspirations of TMZ and OWS have much in common. I strongly oppose this proposal and hope that others in our community share my concerns.

  2. Darrell Prince

    @buddhagem It sounds to me you are looking for things to complain about. The Zeitgeist Movement is a leaderless, horizontal movement of people who are worried about the same societal imbalances Occupy Wall Street protests against. The films do an excellent job of providing a conceptual framework for truly understanding the problems of our world, especially as a system, rather than individual problems and provides potential paths forward. The members are thoughtful, intelligent well mannered folks who have supported Occupy for months. I cannot imagine a better synergy than Zeitgeist and Occupy Wall Street.
    I have enclosed two videos for reference, one short, and one long:

    Zeitgeist Movie

    • David Buccola

      Can I ask why you didn’t address either point I made? They refer to democracy as “mob rule.” Arguments that cannot be “quantified” are invalid. That’s just two things. I could go on. If there are people in this movement that are supportive of OWS that’s great. But I fail to see why they would need to form a working group within OWS when they already have a movement of their own. Why not just work with us when the need arises?

      I’ve seen the films. I thought they were horrible, but it’s been a while. I’ll check out the videos you’ve provided just to be fair. But I fail to see how anybody who reads the FAQ at their site can say that there is compatibility between our two movements.

      Thanks for the videos.

  3. Darrell Prince

    The Zeitgeist Movement, while maintaining Press Spokesman, Lecturers, Chapter Coordinators and the like, does not support or condone a Leadership oriented structure where a single person or group sets the practices and values that others blindly follow. In fact, such a traditional “follow the leader” notion actually voids the premise and nature of TZM’s educational initiatives for the goal is really to create an equally advanced level of understanding within the community so each person is able to take strides on their own, without guidance from outside of the general community developments, which are ongoing and always influential.

    The Chapter Structure, for example, is viewed as “Holographic” meaning that the integrity and understanding of each regional group is expected to mirror not only the other Chapters but the whole as well. This connected yet independent view also exists for the “Members”. In the view of The Movement, there is nothing more powerful than a group of people who share an Idea and can each logically deduce, in tandem, a sympathetic method of conduct that, from an external view, hence finds no leadership control or heads of anything. It is also important to note that those who engage “Coordination” are not leaders of their Chapter or Team. They are merely bridges and initiators. They do not dictate. They are volunteers who digest and take action on behalf.

    It is also very important to point out that The Zeitgeist Movement itself, as is seeks to create Critical Mass, is actually commencing the very transitional process towards the “end” sought by the means itself. If we wish to live in a world without power abuses, division, despotism, scarcity and the like, the public much achieve a level of relevant education about their surroundings rarely seen today. Many condemn the violent dictators from history with respect to their brutal initiatives but rarely does one consider the ignorance and malleability of the public and military which blindly and thoughtlessly upheld those corrupt interests of a select distorted few. True social change will not come from “honest” leaders. It will come for a revolution of mass understanding and hence values changes within each individual.

    It’s a long FAQ and I couldn’t find the lines you were talking about

  4. Patricia L

    I believe there is something a out it in the Rational Consensus section of this page. While OWS may differ in respect to that, is does seem there are some significant points of commonality. So, I could see OWS collaborating with them on projects together. And, certainly people could (and likely are already) involved in both as individuals. But, since they already of an existing organization I’m not sure why they’re looking to be part of OWS.

  5. Justin Stone-Diaz

    People don’t understand how marginalized Anarchists are.
    That which we do not understand…
    Even when the terms are changed emotional reactions seem to rise up.
    It’s History repeating itself. I suggest reading Joseph Conrad’s little known Gem:
    The Secret Agent. It’s where the Anti-Anarchist myth first gained much of it’s weight.
    Funny little read.
    Gee I miss having People’s Library in my life daily. :)