1/5/2012: Removal of 99 Declaration from NYCGA.net

Posted by & filed under Assemblies, Past Proposals.

In the interest of adhering to the OWS Statement of Autonomy – a document consented to by the GA on 11/10/11, for the purposes of maintaining the integrity of Occupy Wall Street and in solidarity with a similar proposal passed by the Philadelphia GA, I bring this proposal to this General Assembly to remove the 99 declaration group presence on NYCGA.net and to announce publicly that the 99% Declaration is unaffiliated with OWS.

The SOA states OWS is not a political party, however, the stated aim of the 99% declaration is to form a third political party. The SOA states that any statement or declaration not released through the GA should be considered to be independent of OWS. Perhaps most importantly, the SOA states: “Those seeking to capitalize on this movement or undermine it by appropriating its message or symbols are not a part of Occupy Wall Street.”

Despite repeated requests for transparency and accountability from different sources, an autonomous group calling itself the 99% Declaration has, for months, been using the symbols and language of the Occupy Movement to solicit funds from unsuspecting people desperate for the change the occupy movement strives to make possible. Recently the 99% Declaration have ramped up their media campaign by airing commercials on national television. The 99% declaration has no accountability or transparency and has not reached consensus in any meaningful way on any of its pronouncements. It does, however, currently have a presence on the NYCGA website as a working group.

On more than one occasion the working group page was set to hidden by the group’s administrators. I and others have been banned from the group for asking questions about meeting times and places as well as issues of accountability and transparency.

The 99% Declaration has also solicited funds presenting its own initiatives as though they were sanctioned by OWS.

A person claiming to be a member of the board of directors of this group has stated publicly, “WE DO NOT PURPORT TO REPRESENT OWS, THE OCCUPY MOVEMENT OR IN ANY WAY REPRESENT OCCUPY OR OCCUPIERS IN ANY OFFICIAL OR UNOFFICIAL CAPACITY”.

The association with OWS lends credibility to the 99% declaration and increases its visibility, which allows the group to reach more potential donors and fool them into giving to a campaign that operates non-democratically. This fractures support for the movement and exploits those wanting to support the kind of change they see manifest in OWS.

We invite the 99% declaration affinity group to come into compliance with the GA ratified guidelines defining working groups passed 12/20/11.

If this resolution is passed, we are in agreement that the 99% declaration does not represent OWS and that NYCGA TechOps be compelled to take down the 99% declaration from the website.

330 Responses to “1/5/2012: Removal of 99 Declaration from NYCGA.net”

  1. edward

    Their fb status updates keep asking people to floor OWS and other Occupy outlets with emails, postings, etc. Why are they not able to build their own organization, especially considering that they believe that their own ideas about organization are superior? Thanks, Brett.

    • the99declaration

      what you are doing is unjust; you establish rules, we follow them to the letter and now you make up lies and change the rules again without applying them to any other working group.

      • Steve Scher

        You not only fail to do as you state above,you do so in a manner as though you invite negative action from ows and provide it with the means and midt importantly the motivation to do so, and you apparently do so as one single person acting literally in the name of the group you seem to knowingly and willfully choose to unprofessional discharge the duties you make a point of not delegating to others.

      • Jackrabbit

        I reject both the statement that this resolution is unjust, that you have – till most recently – made any attempts to be in accord with the most fundamental principles of the movement, and resent that you call me a liar. I demand an apology.

        • the99declaration

          The proposal you originally posted and now replaced with the statement was full of false statements and misrepresentations. This statement makes false assertions as well by claiming we are not in compliance with the rules. We are in compliance with each and every provision including weekly meetings in NYC, minutes, agenda and announcing in advance. Moreover, the rules give us 3O days to comply so this proposal must be withdrawn because we are in fact in compliance and if you say we are not, we have 3O days from December 2O, 2O11 to get into compliance. You must specify why we are not in compliance. You are trying to ignore process when it suits you but you forget this group was founded in Zuccotti Park and announced to the NYCGA on 1O1-15.

          Further, if we are removed for non-compliance, all other working groups not in compliance with the new rules for the same reason must also be removed at the same time. You cannot selective apply rules to those causes you disagree with. I also note that on a webpage of 7OOO people, I see four or five people in support of your proposal. That is not consensus and you should remove the proposal. If and when this gets on the agenda, we will be there. Hopefully this won’t be like the last one proposal which you withdrew when everyone four out you put it on the agenda for Christmas eve at 7pm when everyone was out of town. The 7OOO people in this group and the 7OOO people in our group are all watching. The diversion and division you are creating only damages the movement and strengthens the 1%.

      • batman

        The 99% Declaration is a national working group led by NY criminal defense attorney, Michael Pollok. The story on their website says that Mr. Pollok was contacted for legal representation after the arrests of 700 OWS protesters on the Brooklyn Bridge in NYC. Of the protesters, 20 or so are students from a small liberal arts college in upstate NY where Pollok resides. After meeting with them, he agreed to represent them pro bono. He then began drafting a list of grievances developed during conversations with them. The document he subsequently posted online is now known as the 99% Declaration. The website further states he later distributed about 400 copies of the declaration to Occupy Wall Street in Zuccotti Park. While there he gathered some people to form a working group at OWS. However, organizers from there have not acknowledged the group’s legitimacy, as noted in heated discussions posted on the NYC GA website.

        Two days after his visit to Zuccotti Park, the story was picked up by the Huffington Post and the Global Grind after locating the draft document online. Immediately, the story drew national attention. The news reached Philly immediately, as OP was contacted by reporters for comments on the matter. It seemed mysterious that an event like this was being coordinated without first consulting any of the key organizers at Occupy Philly. Similarly, the large scale media attention given to a presumed OWS group amid reports of a National General Assembly in Philly raised a lot of concerns from key organizers at OWS, especially from those working in the Demands Working Group. A dispute ensued about the group’s authority to use the OWS name for a proposal that had not been passed in their GA. Shortly after, the 99% Declaration was deemed by OWS, not an official working group. This caused their leader, Pollok, to make the following statement,

        “OWS is a failure and there is no backup plan. it is antidemocratic and censors people outside of the narrow agenda of the small elite oligarchy that runs it; I have been down there and I saw them in action; they are a star chamber made up of anarchists and other antidemocratic movements who want everything and nothing. it cannot succeed; it has consumed it’s own oxygen and now the flame is out what a waste. we will press on with the nationwide election of delegates to a National General Assembly”

        “this is an anti-democratic movement and we withdraw our support.”

        Despite their tumultuous relationship with OWS, the group continued to develop its plans and formed its own nonprofit, The 99% Declaration Working Group, Ltd. The board members include founder Michael Pollok, a former white collar crimes criminal defense attorney who ran for Congress in 2009; Nancy Marcus Newman, whose father Steve Newman was involved in a bribery scandal with Vince Fumo; Adeline Malone, a former VP at Goldman Sachs; and an unknown Kevin Archambault.

      • Steve Worldpeace

        I agree…Lets remove the 99% declaration form anything to do with OWS. They are opportunists using OWS for their benefit.

    • David Mauriello

      no one is claiming superiority. We are all in this together and need to unite in the fight. Why would OWS unaffiliate itself from itself? This proposal is exclusionary to OWS members and supporters. OWS has no business telling individuals how to think and what to support, especially when we have common goals and free will.

      • the99declaration

        There is only ONE difference between the National General Assembly in July and all other general assemblies across the world: the people participating in this GA will be elected from all over the country rather than self-appointed. Other than that, the National General Assembly is no different than any other GA. We are electing the delegates so that we have a legal basis to file an action in federal court if the government chooses to ignore the final ratified petition for redress of grievances. Moreover, we believe that a process of self-appointment, for this purpose, would be undemocratic and unfair to people who live in rural areas or some distance from cities where most occupy groups gather. A transparent election of delegates is called for if organized national action can be achieved. Requiring people to physically travel to local general assemblies discriminates against those who cannot travel including the elderly, the infirm and or the mentally or physically disabled. Other people may simply be too poor to regularly travel to a general assembly, which propagates the economic disenfranchisement enforced by the 1%. The 99% Declaration Working Group intends to help delegates get to Philadelphia if they do not have the financial means. Again, this election of participants is the only real difference between a GA and the NGA, which is designed to increase inclusiveness in one deliberative body. The final product of the NGA will be a legal document authorized by the U.S. Constitution with full force and effect under existing law. For the first time in our history since the 1770′s, a set of demands and solutions will be created directly by the people to petition their government for redress, justice and dramatic change in 2012 and beyond. This is a once in a generation opportunity provided to us by #OWS to effect lasting change and we should not squander it by infighting and petty turf battles that will result in division and failure for all except the 1%.

      • Wendy Wilson

        OWS got the ball rolling. Where did they think it was going to go? Does OWS think that protesting is the ONLY way to change things? No. There are other methods and 99Declaration is acting in a peaceful manner to bring to fruition what OWS started.

        • batman

          where will it go? to the overthrow of the machine, the current world government, and the corrupt system in place in the USA. to a better global solution where all humankind is treated equally in our new leaderful system.

          • Paula Smith

            There is no “world government”, merely governments of the world. We will change our government, but we have no plans to overthrow it. I believe that is called “treason”.

          • Tom McNabb

            Agreed Paula. How is this movement supposed to expand and be taken seriously when sober planning like this one is rejected on the whims of anarchists with no solutions to problems, but rather a laundry list of complaints that offers the 99 % nothing but a vague idea of overthrowing some mysterious “world government” with no description of what would replace it or any other system, foreign or domestic ? I’m in this to restore the levers of government to the people from which it is granted its existence.

        • batman

          Perhaps the most alarming part of their plan for a national delegation is the requirement that each delegate submit their social security number and undergo a criminal background check. The rationale is so that the 99% Declaration can verify identities and eliminate infiltrators who might attempt to be elected as delegates. The OP legal collective quickly informed them collecting social security numbers in this way is illegal. Very illegal. When asked where the numbers would go and who would collect them, they were unable to answer. This is pretty scary considering this idea was cooked up by a team of “lawyers.” Understanding the growing prevalence of identity theft and surveillance, the idea of giving SS# to unknown individuals and undergoing criminal background checks is downright crazy.

          • Kat Brag

            Batman,

            Social Security Numbers are not required for register to vote or to register to run for delegate. Neither is a criminal background check.

            I am not a lawyer. I am a volunteer helping to facilitate an election and a venue.

            :)

        • Steve Scher

          Illogical.
          Firstly I note occupiers pose the same questions on this website.
          Secondly I note one proposal ( there are ar too many to be aware of all of them ) may result in what is in fact the ows version of Facebook.
          Of course there also is a Nationsl General Assembly I’ve seen as well, amazingly close to your National General Assembly.
          You don’t think your people will choose to spend their previous funds on litigation , do you.
          Ahhhhh.litigation….the fuel that lines the pockets of lawyers….throws monkey wrenches into the objects of litigation to stall and drain their funds….

          You know, although I post here I am not an occupier.
          Nor do I approve of everything ows ( or parts thereof ) do, such as what I considered bullying in the Duarte trespass ( sorry people ), and therefore am amused you call upon me to provide information others are far more expert than I am.
          I will try to respond at : http://99declaration.info/
          Which construction will begin shortly.

        • Eureka Springs

          There is great value in just raging against the machine on a wide variety of very important issues. As there is great value in getting into specifics, I just don’t know if OWS greatest value (raging) would be doing both. Sending 99 on it’s merry way would not have to be such a bad thing. It’s like weening puppies…) We gave birth, we will do it again if we let/encourage/value Occupy being just Occupy! I feel much the same about less formal usurpations out there as well. (Move To Amend dot borg among others.)

      • Steve Scher

        I agree David in a sense with your post.
        Why would New York City Occupy Wall Street unaffiliate itself from itself.
        That’s why as one of the administrators or moderators of the 99%D working group residing in Philadelphia, working in Philadelphia! and as a member of the cadre group in Philadelphia set up in opposition to OccupyPhiladelphia , I don’t understand why there is a working group in our midst that has never met, and craves the national stage.
        I just don’t get it.

        • Steve Scher

          That is where you live and work, and that is your affiliation: yes?

    • batman

      i approve of this proposal. the 99D is a fraud and a scam trying to subvert OWS and poison public opinion against us while trying to make loot from those who barnum claimed were born every minute. Occupy Philly, Kentucky, and several others have already evicted the 99D, and we need to as well.

      • Kat Brag

        Batman,

        We are not against OWS. We are merely facilitating an election and a venue for Occupy members (and others) to participate in a national general assembly.

        In fact, it should be mentioned that the election and assembly are open to all, not just Occupy groups.

        We have a small amount of funding (just over $20,000) raised from small donors. Hardly loot…

        If you don’t want to participate, then don’t, but please do not spread misinformation.

        :)

        • batman

          michael pollacks own words, once again:
          “OWS is a failure and there is no backup plan. it is antidemocratic and censors people outside of the narrow agenda of the small elite oligarchy that runs it; I have been down there and I saw them in action; they are a star chamber made up of anarchists and other antidemocratic movements who want everything and nothing. it cannot succeed; it has consumed it’s own oxygen and now the flame is out what a waste. we will press on with the nationwide election of delegates to a National General Assembly”

          “this is an anti-democratic movement and we withdraw our support.”

          how is that ‘not against’ OWS?????

  2. the99declaration

    we have adhered to all new rules and have weekly meetings in NYC; we published our minutes and stated our meetings even though many other groups are not in compliance; we were invited to establish a working group on this page twice. If you remove us, you must remove all groups and persons you disagree with; We are in complete compliance with the 12/2O rules

    • Steve Scher

      You have not held even one working group meeting yet.
      The scheduled only this past Friday resulted in minutes posted listing three attendees, two of which are 15 month old children of the poster of the minutes.
      The meeting was called by you Mr.Pollok as you put it, to be in compliance.
      Meetings of working groups are held to do work, not to meet rules so as to be in compliance.
      Since you are a lawyer who has an awareness of words both for their legal content and the impressions those words can have, I concluded that for one reason or another you chose those very words. I can only guess having chosen that tact, what your motivation was.

        • Steve Scher

          Yes Mr. Pollok, I did not show up, on that single point above you are quite correct.
          Don’t you think slander and libel laws apply to you sir?
          Further attempting over and over to try to characterize what is business as personal is in my opinion illogical.

          • Kat Brag

            Wow! I really cannot believe what I am seeing.

            The people fighting here seem determined to see the 99%Declaration fail.

            Ask yourself this question — if it fails, who benefits?

            Sadly, the answer is the 1%.

          • Wendy Wilson

            Well siad Kat. The 1% must be laughing their a*ses off. Maybe even involved in the attempt. I honor OWS for beginning what needed to be begun but it seems as if they feel that they are the only ones with answers.
            Remember this; Divide and Conquer. The 1% knows this tactic inside out and it looks like that is what is happening.

      • Wendy Wilson

        Mr. Scher; Please, both OWS and 99%Declaration should work together. Both groups, after all, have a common goal; fairness and an equal voice for all in the government. As to the equal voice, I have a question; I can not make it to the General Assemblies. If I am lucky I might make it to the Occupy Congress event on January 17. How is my voice heard in OWS? When people ask me “what do you people want?” Up to recently, all I have been able to tell them is what I, as an individual want because I have not seen a clear statement of intent from OWS. The 99%Declaration HAS given me the chance to speak and be heard even though I am not standing with the group. My ideas were listened to and in some cases my ideas were implemented. I am merely a 57 year old working mom who believes as you do. But I want a chance to be heard and I can not travel to any GAs.

        • batman

          we dont have a common goal. we dont want a ‘voice’ in the ‘government’. you have the wrong idea what this and OWS are about. if you can’t travel, if you cant participate in OWS, then why are you here, especially in light of your group not being wanted?

          • Wendy Wilson

            So, you are telling me that ONLY those people who have the money and time to travel great distances are allowed to participate in the government you want? Are you denying my voice because I can’t afford to travel?

        • Steve Scher

          I agree.
          As a 61 year old unemployed who has difficulty traveling to manhattan to attend a general assembly, I empathize.
          I should be in touch with OccupyBayside or something more local, but as a fellow resident of New York City I felt enough of a connection to leave my home at 4:30am one morning to join with thousands to defend the integrity of the occupation of what is known as Liberty Square ( or is it Liberty Park ). Imagine thousands in the darkness of the early morning as the media lights contrasted that darkness on the faces of my brothers and sisters,and at 61 I must admit I felt a bit like grandpa feeling pride at what my crazy children were daring to do…..
          I agree with you…
          There are no sides in my opinion.
          What we have here are collections of individuals, and having experienced the heavy hand on some, or perhaps it might be more accurate to say one of them from your cadre,the point becomes very difficult to answer.
          Respect for this group, it’s rules, it’s very beliefs, what it stands for can be a high price to pay when fundamental differences of opinion on basics like representative vs direct democracy exit.
          Civility, avoiding words of hate…
          I know what the words, the profanity Mr.Pollok used, I know what the intent was.
          Question is, karma.

          • Wendy Wilson

            First off, Mr. Pollock is not the only one using flamable language. I was called scum by one of your constant posters simply because I questioned OWS.

            When, and if, OWS can allow me to have a voice in a process many miles away from my home, I will fully support it. Until then, I WANT and NEED a voice, Are you truly telling me that the only ones allowed a voice are those with the money and time to travel distances? Sounds a bit elitist to me.

  3. mike

    i feel like the author of this thread just copied and pasted this from some older thing that i have read before. the accusations are not true. the 99 declaration is not looking to form a 3rd party. read the rules and mission of the organization on the webpage. a daily transparency list of funds spent is given.

    like i said, this is recycled ridiculousness. probably the same person wrote this as tried to take away the status of the group as a working group like a thief in the night on christmas eve like how congress instituted the federal reserve onto it’s citizens so long ago.

    the99declaration.org is a good organization with clear goals and transparency. all you need to do is look and ye shall find.

    • Steve Scher

      Mr. Pollok stated to me in the second call if two e made to me otherwise.
      Specifically by waiting until after the meeting in July, the change could then be made back to the original wording.

      • Steve Scher

        I note Mr Polloks fellow, Mr David Itkin corroborates this in the body of his statement below when he points out(paraphrasing here:now working from tiny hard to scroll old iOS touch:see below please for exact wording) that indeed the steps have NOT been finalized and in fact a third party is a option.

    • batman

      wow another shill dummy account set up to troll for the 99D who doesnt participate anywhere else. neat.

      • mike

        why are you surprised that someone made an account on here just to combat what you have said. and you troll the 99dec facebook page all the time. hypocrite.

    • batman

      michael pollack’s own words:

      “OWS is a failure and there is no backup plan. it is antidemocratic and censors people outside of the narrow agenda of the small elite oligarchy that runs it; I have been down there and I saw them in action; they are a star chamber made up of anarchists and other antidemocratic movements who want everything and nothing. it cannot succeed; it has consumed it’s own oxygen and now the flame is out what a waste. we will press on with the nationwide election of delegates to a National General Assembly”

      “this is an anti-democratic movement and we withdraw our support.”

      The truth about who is the board of the 99D:

      The board members include founder Michael Pollok, a former white collar crimes criminal defense attorney who ran for Congress in 2009; Nancy Marcus Newman, whose father Steve Newman was involved in a bribery scandal with Vince Fumo; Adeline Malone, a former VP at Goldman Sachs; and an unknown Kevin Archambault. The comments made by Mr. Pollok, coupled with the background of the board members were enough to set off red flags in the beginning of the GA discussion.

      hows that for transparency? how are those ‘goals’ in line with ours? how is that ‘board’ stacking up against the power of the people united?

      • mike

        no matter what the feelings are of a board member, the actions of the group are what is necessary to look at. the group is here to come together and form a list of grievances. the group of delegates is being formed by the votes of people. the man you claim to head the group, which he doesn’t, we all do, has one vote in those elections just like the rest of us. ows needs to realize that there is more than one way to skin a cat and join the people of this group. transparency is given to the group as far as financial concerns go and the decisions of the group are made democratically on all fronts. the people will be in philly in july based on elections in march and they will represent the people who agree with the plight of the 99%. nyc is not god. nyc is part of the whole and should stand with us and not try to bring us down. just because one person in one group says one thing doesn’t mean that the whole group feels that way. it means that there is a difference of opinion that one person has (even though this person apologized for the statement you bring up…repeatedly) who has no control over the direction of the group. GIVE IT UP. we are your brothers and sisters in this fight. different ideas can lead to the same results. your ideas are not the golden rule. stop flaming and trolling our site. bring something creative to the table.

  4. the99declaration

    We are not forming a political party. This is the clause I believe you refer to:

    “V. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that IF the PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES, ratified by the 876 Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY, is not redressed and acted upon within a reasonable time and to the satisfaction of the Delegates, said Delegates shall reconvene to organize and fund political grassroots campaigns for candidates in every available Congressional seat in the mid-term election of 2014 and again in 2016 and again in 2018 until all vestiges of the corrupt corporate state are eradicated and the grievances of the National General Assembly redressed. Only candidates who publicly pledge to redress all of the grievances contained in the final petition will be supported.”

    Moreover the 99% Declaration clearly states we are non-partisan and are only providing venue for delegates to petition the government for a redress of grievances as guaranteed by the constitution. The reason the delegates are elected, apart from being more democratic than self appointment, the courts have rejected petitions where those signing it are not representative of the people. We are electing 876 Delegates from all of the 435 voting districts plus six more from DC, Puerto Rico and the territories so they will not be able to use that excuse to ignore this petition.

    We are completely accountable and transparent. We publish the sources of our donations every three days and all of our not for profit filings: see http://www.the-99-declaration.org/financial-transparency/ We have not published any expenditures because no group funds have been expended yet except for the downpayment of the venue for the National General Assembly and that check has not been returned yet. When it does we will publish it online with all our other financial documents.

    Our working was started on October 15, 2O11 in Zucotti Park and announced to the NYCGA the same night. See http://youtu.be/Le5YI_QPPKk

    We never set our group to hidden that was down by techops when we complained that Jackrabbit an Steve Scher and Jason Stone were spamming us and trolling us. This post is nothing but the continued rantings of a troll and it is all FALSE. The rules on working groups were changed and we are in compliance with those rules. Moreover, we did this before the 3O days elapsed which is January 2Oth I believe. What of the dozens of working groups who are not in compliance? Are you just going to remove us even though we are in compliance and holding weekly meetings in NYC as required on Fridays at 3pm?

    We have just as much right to be here as any other OWS working group. We have to raise our own funds because our request for funds are ignored. There is no monolithic power directing the 99% Movement. We are part of it and started as an occupy wall street group.

    This really appears to be about money and you do not wish us to succeed because you disagree with our views. This is antidemocratic and antithetical to the views of Occupy Wall Street and the 99% Movement.

    • Steve Scher

      Mr.Pollok is accurate when he states ” we are not forming a political party “.
      However the full truth might be better served if he had added the words “at this time”.

      • Wendy Wilson

        Mr. Scher,, I would like to hear your response to the statement that you and others were spamming and trolling the 99%Declaration page and that is what caused the site to temporarily shut down. I’m not an expert on IP addresses but I know that it is possible to confirm who is who on boards.

        • the99declaration

          Scher and Zed have been contacting people I work with including a Judge I appear before and they should be removed. I also appear before this judge representing students pro bono who were arrested at OWS. This guy Scher and this Zed who may me him also is out of control. Please do something about this.

          • Steve Scher

            For the record:
            Note that Claire posted information ( in full below) in which she stated Mr.Pollok was involving a judge whose name was provided by Mr Pollok to Claire.
            Portion below, full text further below.
            “. Court actions for disagreement with you online will not be won (especially not in front of judge triebwasser, I?m sure) because orders of protection are for actions which actually cause you harm (these people don?t cause you harm, nor do they threaten you) and an order of protection for disagreement without harassment would be chilling on free speech, unconstitutional and thus invalid, libel laws notwithstanding.”
            The above is the one and only time I’d ever encountered that name.
            I was unaware when I sent my email to the judge Mr Pollok introduced , that in fact Mr Pollok had any relationship with the judge.
            I note elsewhere you Mr. Pollok make false and defamatory statements .
            You Mr Pollok state I have called people you work with.That is not true. I have made no such calls.
            It s true I emailed the judge whose name you introduced in your communication with Claire,that email appearing in full below.
            In that email I inquired regarding a statement, one of a series you’ve made intended to intimidate.
            Unprofessional conduct is of concern to organizations such as the State Bar Association.
            I have no need to take any further action except to speak the truth, while karma does its thing.
            As for this distraction you attempt by suggesting its personal, it’s not.
            It’s business.
            Who authorized your adoption of the name you use as an alias ” the99declaration”.
            When you post personal attacks using obscenities such as s*umb*g or sh*t and more…all there on your very controlled group , posted as “the99declaration” and still there to be viewed.
            You apply control to repeatedly ban without cause, to delete entire threads of discussion and finally to eliminate them entirely, but you show no control over yourself.
            You suggest my removal based on a lie.
            Shame on you Michael S. Pollok.

          • Steve Scher

            This is the full text if the only communication I’ve had with this judge, who I was unaware Mr. Pollok worked with, and whose name was introduced to me for the first time, and only time from Mr.Pollok himself through Claire.
            He lies when he states I’ve had ANY telephonic communication with anyone he works with.

            “Your Honor,

            Forgive my lack of judicial experince, I’m not even sure I am supposed to start out with a Dear Your honor?. so begging your indulgence.

            Through a post on the internet I have learned you may be asked to act on a legal proceeding effecting my rights of freedom of speech.

            Below please find the actualy post as I found it at:

            https://www.nycga.net/members/the99declaration/activity/mentions/

            Your name is brought up in line 10 wherein the author writes:

            ” Court actions for disagreement with you online will not be won (especially not in front of judge triebwasser, I?m sure) because orders of protection are for actions which actually cause you harm (these people don?t cause you harm, nor do they threaten you) and an order of protection for disagreement without harassment would be chilling on free speech, unconstitutional and thus invalid, libel laws notwithstanding.”

             

            @the99declaration is Mr. Pollok

             

            I do not know if in fact Mr. Pollok has initiated any such proceeding, and I only ask that if in fact he has done so I be apprised.

             

            Many Thanks

            Steve Scher

            claire mooney posted an update 2 hours, 3 minutes ago

            @the99declaration
            I am formally announcing the withdrawal of my delegate resignation for your conference.

            The reason for this is that you claim affiliation with OWS, but you do not act as they do?you try to be a leader in a leaderless movement. I cannot trust you for this reason.

            Second, you attack those who do not agree with you. Though I don?t always agree with @Steve Scher nor do I agree with @Patrick Conway at times, both of these individuals deserve respect and I have problems with how you treat these people.

            As an occupier, I support inclusiveness. Your place as a lawyer does not allow you to call people by profane names and threaten them with court actions just because they disagree with you (in my email you wrote a comment to this effect). Court actions for disagreement with you online will not be won (especially not in front of judge triebwasser, I?m sure) because orders of protection are for actions which actually cause you harm (these people don?t cause you harm, nor do they threaten you) and an order of protection for disagreement without harassment would be chilling on free speech, unconstitutional and thus invalid, libel laws notwithstanding.

            My critique of your questionably legal viewpoints leads me to my third and final point. You are not the only leader here. Your posts should not dominate the content of a working group. You should not try to change the direction of OWS. Other legal ?authorities? have tried to do the same thing with little effect.

            Please don?t take this as an attack. I see this as a parting of ways, and I hope that you will, too?or maybe that you will reconsider your dominating ways. I am not ?against you,? and I hope that you will have respect for me?I have not lost respect for you. Especially since, please know:
            I still support the ideas in the 99% declaration!!!! I hope that it makes real change and helps this country?I stand wholeheartedly behind the values. I just hope with all my heart that you will change how you do your operations. I will rejoin you if you bring your group back to the spirit of OWS.

            I leave you with this quote, that has been heard across the streets of America, that has been chanted by me and tens of thousands of others?
            ?The people, united, will never be defeated.?
            Respectfully,
            Claire”

            I would add the judge responded to me privately, the content of that communication is privileged between the judge Mr. Pollok introduced me to.

        • claire mooney

          Please note that Mr Triebwasser was not introduced to me by Mr Pollok
          Thanks

        • claire mooney

          I really want to clarify here.
          I tried to make my reasons for resignation clear (I hope that they are). I naively and improperly used Judge Triebwasser’s name.
          My post was all my personal opinion. I did not ask for the Judge’s permission and I should not have used his name. I used it to remind Mr. Pollok, esq, that just because he is an agent of the law, does not mean that he will be able to use it unconstitutionally.
          Out of respect for the Judge’s time, I would like to ask him to be left out of this. It is COMPLETELY my mistake that he was ever mentioned.
          Thanks,
          Claire

          • Steve Scher

            noted.
            it caused mr pollok to post different variations of the simple truth.
            one post he stated i called the judge.
            another i had contacted people he worked with
            and so on……
            what i learned from his response and altering of what was written in black and white as to both my source and exactly what i asked the judge, and why , was that he could apprentley knowingly and willfully use what was an attack on myself i was very properly and justifiably defending myself against, into yet another tool to attack and intimidate me.

            and make no mistake about it.
            he succeded.
            and now that without cause he’s apparently removed me from the 99%D working group literally as i slept, i am only more distressed.

            I made one sole contact with the judge, as described.
            It was the judges response that i drew most comfort from, as well as the fact that he took the time and trouble to do so.

            So although you apparently feel you should not have done as you did, it allowed Mr. Pollok to express himself in a very revealing manner, and caused the judge to respond.

            For that I thank you.

          • claire mooney

            I am glad that that situation ended nicely, @Steve Scher. I am also glad that you and others are helping to expose Mr Pollok. But now, this group has been deleted! let’s move with the movement! :)

          • Steve Scher

            please understand, my objective is not to delete any group.
            my concern is with process, for example how and why a member is removed.
            or how a vote ( as it was on facebook ) is interrupted deciding on the name for the july event, and never resumed, of how the name apparently prefered by one individual is actully being used although now group decision was made….

            but not to have any group deleted.

  5. Robert Dinsmore

    Why are you people so damn negative? You all disgust me with your petty complaints and aggression towards others. What exactly has OWS done besides protest? Now you want to protest against a group of people that are trying to do 1 tiny thing to help move towards a change. All they are doing is trying to draft a document to present to the government. How is this so bad and so anti OWS or undermining it?

    How is getting people together to draft a document not a consensus process? Why do you people think consensus is so wonderful when your GAs do not hear the voices of people not in attendance? Does OWS have an actual plan to change anything? If so please let me hear it now so I can understand why you are so against this idea.

    I don’t understand why you are wasting your energy fighting against all the people that like this simple idea. Why not spend it trying to change something instead?

    • Kristen Forthun

      Thank you very much @Robert Dinsmore!! Makes perfect sense to me. I hope you get an answer Robert :) and I hope you sign up to at the very least vote for a delegate if not run as one :) I would vote for you!

    • batman

      we arent negative, we just want scum like you and your group gone from here. you arent with us. we arent with you. you are a fraud. we are a movement. you and your shills and trolls repeatedly sue terms you know are patently offensive to OWS such as ‘elitist’ and ‘conspiracy nut’ in order to try to paint your many MANY detractors here with a brush that you hope will stick and sidetrack the issue that every occupation that has voted in a GA on the 99D has REJECTED YOU as a fraud, or worse.

      • Wendy Wilson

        the 99%Declaration is SCUM? {your words batman]. Please, what constitutes NOT scum in your opinion? Agreeing ONLY with YOU?

  6. Donna Dineley

    It seems to me that OWS is content with staging occupations and demonstrations whereas the 99% group is looking toward new paths forward. It is my belief that the occupations and demonstrations are a very good thing, but that we must also work for definitive change in the current political system. I do not believe that the system will change solely because of some inconvenient demonstrations. We need to either get more people involved in much more dramatic actions (i.e. a nationwide strike, for instance) which seems unlikely to garner the necessary support to be effective at this point, or we need to move forward in a meaningful way to change the establishment. The 99% working group is aiming for this goal. I cannot understand why the 99% group is not being embraced and aided by the NYCGA as it is but another method for achieving the same goals.

    There are many of us who are unable to be in New York city, or unable to occupy for some other reason, who wholeheartedly support the actions proposed by the 99% Delegation. I find the repeated requests for exclusion to be disheartening and they somewhat diminish my optimism over the continued success of Occupy in general.

    • edward

      I find the repeated requests for inclusion and attempts at cooptation exhausting. 99 is doing something different. Good for them. Do it on their own pages, with their own money, with their own organizational forms. Why this insistence to encroach? If one supports both ows and 99d, then support both.

  7. the99declaration

    A Message To Our Brothers and Sisters With Occupy Wall Street From Co-Facilitator Michael Pollok

    The 99% Declaration and National General Assembly has nothing to do with me as a person. These two ideas were developed by thousands of people from all over the world and they are good ideas. Not “good” as in “clever” but good for the betterment of our people who are suffering terribly. According to the 2010 census, 150,000,000 people live in poverty or in low-income households in the wealthiest, most prosperous country in history.

    Although this is not about me or any other one person, I have caused unnecessary friction due to my own faults. I have apologized to #OWS for the declaration going viral on 10-18-11. Please understand that this was not our doing. The Huffington Post reported that our suggested grievances were the official OWS demands only three days after we announced this working group to the NYCGA. They did this without speaking to us or making any kind of confirmation of the story. The document also had the words ”draft” and ”suggestions” written in it. I have also apologized for remarks I made in anger directly after our webpage was taken down in late October.

    I will not apologize, however, for what we are accomplishing because this opportunity, provided to us by #OWS and the 99% Movement, may never come again. Citizens United, SOPA, NDAA, misuse of FISA and the Patriot Act have now changed the game and we must organize and act before the corporations are permitted to consolidate their power to such a level that they will directly control the military. We already know they indirectly (if not directly) control the police. Sections 1031 and 1032 of the NDAA will permit the military to obtain military jurisdiction over American civilians and deprive those citizens of the protections guaranteed in the Bill of Rights and codified in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure and The Bail Reform Act which ensures that every citizen be timely brought before a magistrate and apprised of the charges he or she is facing and an immediate bail determination made based on a list of objective factors. The NDAA will also deny access to counsel and the Writ of Habeas Corpus. The President has stated he will sign this bill because it is necessary for national defense. “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” -British Prime Minister William Pitt the Younger.

    The four board members of this group (soon to be seven) cannot be delegates nor do we have any say about what goes into the final petition of grievances. This group’s ONLY functions are to hold an open and transparent election and provide a venue in Philadelphia for the elected delegates to meet and ratify a Petition for a Redress of Grievances as authorized by the First Amendment to the Constitution. The board also acts as a blind trust, which receives anonymous donations that will not be disclosed to the delegates so they are not influenced in any way. Delegates may not take money from anyone except to pay for their expenses to and from Philadelphia. If we can raise enough money, we will transport all 876 delegates and house them for their stay in Philadelphia while they attend the National General Assembly. It is this model of a blind trust funded by the taxpayers that we seek to replace the current corrupt funding of political campaigns by corporations and other concentrations of great wealth.

    I think it is critical to mention that The 99% Declaration’s requirement of a transparent election was never intended to be a slap in the face to #OWS and their use of direct democracy. In our view, an election representing all of the geographic sections of the country is necessary for the courts to require the government to redress the grievances voted on by the National General Assembly. If you research the history of the Petition for a Redress of Grievances for abolition, temperance, the suffragette movement, anti-war protests and civil rights, you will find that the courts have rejected past petitions because they were not deemed sufficiently representative of the American people. We have required an election for a very specific legal reason: to give full force and effect to an important section of our Bill of Rights. By using the very same geographic distributions the current corporate state uses to elect its stooges and keep them in power, the government will be forced to address and redress the petition voted on by duly elected delegates of the people from the same geographic regions as the Corporate Congress.

    When the petition is ratified in July, signed in front of Independence Hall, and served on all three branches of government; all politicians who are running for office in 2012 will be asked their positions on the grievances and solutions listed in the petition. Should the politicians ignore the petition, Clause V of the declaration will be activated and the electoral revolution will begin. Independent candidates will be run in all 435 districts (and the 33 open senate seats) who will take a pledge to immediately redress the grievances in the July 2012 National General Assembly petition within their first one hundred days in office. These candidates will run as independent American citizens with no public “party” affiliation and only one mandate: enact the will of the 99% and remove ALL private sources of campaign contributions in politics.

    Our group seeks to unify the movement under one banner of The 99% and we beseech #OWS to please elect and run candidates in the delegate election in March and come to Philadelphia to support the ratification of this petition. Direct democracy cannot legally and effectively be used on this level and that should not be a reason to abandon the concept of an election of delegates free of the corrupting influence of money. For those of you who seek a more drastic solution, we ask that you please grant us this chance to peacefully transition from corporatism to real democracy. If we fail, we will have the same corrupt corporate lackeys in place serving only the needs of the 1%.

    We call upon all of the Demands Working Groups to please send us their ideas and suggestions for incorporation into the final petition. The delegates will be elected in March and then work from March through June to come up with proposed points to be in the final petition. Between 7-2 and 7-4, the 876 delegates will then vote on each proposal one by one and decide what should be in this FIRST petition for a redress of grievances at this FIRST National General Assembly. We are suggesting ten or twelve points in this petition but the delegates may include as many or as few as they so decide. There is no reason that this effort cannot continue parallel to and in synergy with #OWS’s continuing peaceful resistance to corporate state that has insidiously stolen our democracy while we sat on the couch and watched Family Guy and American Idol. #OWS has reawakened the American consciousness and gotten us off the couch, out the door and into to streets.

    In solidarity,

    -Michael Pollok

      • batman

        not a damn thing. they think they can mouth the right combination of words and magically money will fall from our coffers, and support from our brothers and sisters. OWS and 99D are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED. 99D really needs to take a hike and stick to their own pages and meetings and stop trying to subvert ours. as the mythical heroic figure jesus said, if you arent with me you are against me. 99D is against the OWS and what we stand for. that is not a place a thinking person wants to be.

  8. Kris

    How long is the 99 percent going to stay divided? OWS is about uniting all of us who are sick of the corruption running rampant through the government. I understand the need to demonstrate and express our outrage but if we cannot move beyond that, then the movement will die out. I saw an article that says while many support OWS’s ideas, many do NOT support the tactics. Anarchy and destruction is not going to solve anything and for those who are anarchists, I suggest you not go against your beliefs by being part of a group.

    Personally, I am not a protester and I feel the the 99 percent declaration’s goal of reform through a democratic and transparent process is a better way for me to express myself. There is transparency-the admins let us know what is going on and the amount of funds received is shown to all of us. We have actual goals we want achieve and are taking steps to let our grievances be known.

    What are the goal of OWS? Has something been laid out? What are you going to do when it gets too cold to sleep in a tent? When the volunteers stop giving food? Now is the time to act. It is an election year and we need to show the 1% that we are capable of that.

    • Siochain

      firstly anarchists aren’t going against their beliefs by being part of a group – that idea illustrates a level of ignorance about the core values of anarchism. Occupies everywhere are based on a horizontal leadership idea and involves the concept of direct democracy ….. again very much anarchist principles.
      Secondly the declaration is not democratic or transparent – they will not answer simple questions about the origins of funding. I could easily print out a daily list with amounts of money on it …. that is not transparency.
      Thirdly I know it may be hard for some people to understand that OWS and Occupies globally continually illustrate its core goals and it can be explained in three easy words ” LIFE OVER PROFIT” …… our world needs to change and until we place the priority of people’s need over greed we will do nothing but fail to evolve and become extinct as a species.

      I agree its an election year – So how about we continue to vent our voices frustrations and continue with direct actions and agitations – ‘they’ fear a situation where working class people from all walks of life awake unite and fight – this revolution isn’t going to happen with “congressional representatives” sitting around for a week in a Philadelphia Hotel wasting 80,000 dollars. It will be when the masses are awakened – its only the beginning :)

    • edward

      Good for you. Run with that. Why are you insisting that ows follow along with you?

      Moreover: “I am not a protestor.” And then the lack of understanding anarchism. You are clearly demonstrating the gulf between 99d and ows. In means and methods and outlook. Yes, many goals are shared, ends similarly pursued, but you don’t even understand the basics of ows and yet you want to have 99d running all over it?

      Best of luck to you.

    • batman

      good for you @klhayes.. you dont want to protest, and want to participate in the current corrupt system. WE DON’T, and that isn’t what OWS is about or stands for. so go off and find a group that has the same goals as that.. this isnt it.

      • Tom McNabb

        …and hence we reduce the percentage of people we purport to be working in solidarity with and for ? There is still an on-going internal debate about what we do and don’t stand for, btw, in occupies all over the world.

  9. sumumba

    ALTHOUGH I DONT AGREE with all the STRUCTURES nor ‘policy’s’ of OWS…and would like to see them EVOLVE…I’ve heard MORE than enough from the ’99%’ movement to KNOW that it is a REACTIONARY element that is NOW in ‘compliance’ with WORKING GROUP rules…ONLY as a result of the recent proposal that passed the GA stating that all WORKING GROUPS be in compliance…but so many contradictory posting and actions on behalf of the ’99%’ NOT TO mention its policy on raising funds leaves a horrible example but CLEAR lesson for OWS as to how to NOT to have its message co-opted and exploited by those who wish NOT to TRULY be a part of it…

      • Steve Scher

        A very good question to raise as a point of discussion, however it has no relevance insofar as the points appearing in the proposal are not involved with the final outcome of that discussion.

      • batman

        we are OWS and we have consistently in GA’s across the globe said you and your scam 99D group is NOT aligned with us. go away and sell your shitty wares somewhere else. we have real work to do.

  10. Siochain

    The 99% Declaration Group where indeed not endorsed by the Occupy Philadelphia GA. As a collective there where some very concerning issues with this group and their structure and proposed plans. Personally although they and their supporters deny wanting to create a “third party” this is essentially what they are trying to do. Personally my concerns centered mostly around the issue of “candidates” /”representatives” would have to be over 18, provide their social security numbers, a background check, be either male or female …….. (amongst other demands) This is not what our movement is about – we encourage the youth, immigrants, transgender with open arms and are delighted to be an accepting environment where no one feels “left out” or that their voice will not be heard.
    We exist as a global collective because we want to see a different society not to replicate the structures and systems that are being proven unsuccessfully almost on a daily basis.
    Also we should as individuals research this group and their origins closely. Why do lawyers and ex corporate elite want to co opt this movement? Why did the representatives of this group go meet with the mayor of Philadelphia and his administration before ever contacting Occupy Philadelphia in regard to holding its planned 4th July ‘meeting’.

    Let me explain also that the representatives met with Nutter and Negrin the day after 1500 PPD and city representatives evicted OP with excessive presence and several occasions of police brutality. Not once did any representative from this group contact OP until they wanted the GA’s ‘approval’ …….. When those within the OP GA questioned the motives and background of this group they where not able to answer said questions. which created even more suspicion. When they then went and met with the Philadelphia “reasonable solutions group” (who are non affiliated to OP but who have been working directly with the Mayors office since the beginning of the Philadelphia “dilworth” occupation and are endorsed by Richard Negrin the deputy mayor) I was then convinced that this alleged “99%” representation is nothing but an attempt to co opt this movement on some level.

    The question you have to ask is why would NYCGA want to have these people of questionable intention origins and ethics associated with them. This group continually misinform stating that they are transparent and are not trying to do anything except have a meeting with “all the 99%represented” …………… so they can have a “declaration” …… this cannot be done via existing structures and gerrymandered congressional districts you can’t use broken tools to repair things!

    regardless of whether you feel that you can work within the system to change it or not – i’d ask you to read the link below – do some of your own research into these people and their “organization” and ask questions before you jump up to support them.

    http://occupyphillymedia.org/content/99-declaration-receives-vote-%E2%80%9Cno-support%E2%80%9D-op-ga

    • Kat Brag

      Hi

      About the 99% D –

      A criminal background check and social security numbers are not required to register to participate in the election.

      Other requirements – being over 18, and not being a felon – are for legal reasons only.

      We are not against OWS or Occupy Philly.
      We are trying to reform government through a Constitutional Process.
      We are volunteers.
      We are not perfect.

      :)

      • batman

        ” No offense, but you don’t exactly look like someone I’d want taking our case to Congress. Why don’t you get a haircut, take a bath, and then go get a job?” quote from 99D facebooker, to me lol

        “OWS is a failure and there is no backup plan. it is antidemocratic and censors people outside of the narrow agenda of the small elite oligarchy that runs it; I have been down there and I saw them in action; they are a star chamber made up of anarchists and other antidemocratic movements who want everything and nothing. it cannot succeed; it has consumed it’s own oxygen and now the flame is out what a waste. we will press on with the nationwide election of delegates to a National General Assembly”

        “this is an anti-democratic movement and we withdraw our support.”

        quotes from michael pollock, the fuhrer of 99d towards OWS

        how does that gel with you saying ‘we are not against OWS’?

  11. David Itkin

    Here’s the question: Is the idea of a convention in Philly, over the Independence Day holiday, to draft and adopt a petition of greivances to present to the government. There’s no declaration yet, just an early, evolving draft. There’s no third party. We’re calling the authorities’ bluff. If they address every grievance, in a satisfactory way, the problem is solved.

    Now, I grant you, monkeys are more likely to fly out of my butt than the government is to comply with the demands formulated and promulgated over Independence Day in Philly.

    But if they don’t, then we decide future steps. Forming a third party is one. So is holding our breath until our faces turn blue. I wouldn’t endorse either approach, but the time for that decision is after we’ve drafted our petition and after they’ve failed to respond.

    Right now, the only question is whether putting the convention together is a good idea. If it is, repeated efforts to delegitimize the folks trying to get it together are self-defeating and foolish.

    If it’s a bad idea, don’t participate in the effort. But even under those circumstances, don’t obstruct the effort either. I’ve typed the next part hereabouts before, but then, the proposal has been typed and posted before.

    It is not an iron law of nature that, when progressives form a firing line, they do so in a circle, facing inwards. It’s just a bad habit.

    Even nuns have given up bad habits. Can’t we?

    • Steve Scher

      Yes for nuns, but others?
      Please note on your Facebook page a vote was in process to choose the name to call the July meeting.
      14 votes had already been cast, and the name that all those votes were for was not the name Mr. Pollok had already been using elsewhere.
      The name he was already using,before the vote was concluded was remarkedly close to suggesting a connection with some form of national general assembly.
      That poll, it’s votes, it’s language was deleted.
      Your administrator Kat requested Mr. Pollok restore it.
      That was not done.
      Control can be a habit, and addiction, but unlike the cute imagery you provide of monkys and wordplay with nuns and habits, the stifleing if democracy is not cute.

    • batman

      right now, the only question is why are these phonies from the 99D here? they dont agree with our goals or principles, they want to work with the corrupt corporate machine that has run this planet and all humankind into the dirt, their board is run by a tea bagging red stater and a former vp at goldman sachs, and they have been discredited and dismissed from every occupation that has voted on it.

    • batman

      from michael polloks bio blurb oon his law firms site:
      Michael has zealously represented clients in a wide range of criminal and regulatory matters, including:
      Successfully defending multiple criminal tax matters and federal investigations related to the securities industry, banking, private placement memoranda, and other white-collar investigations by state and federal authorities.

      wow congrats on defending the 1% dude.

      • batman

        oh and also with one board member a former VP at goldman Sachs, another whose family was involved in the Vince Fumo corruption scandal, how exactly are you all the 99% again?

  12. David Itkin

    There’s near-total overlap in goals. Near-total disconnect in means.

    Direct democracy works in an educated Greek city-state. It doesn’t work in governing a nation of millions that spans a continent and several time zones. Representative …democracy is the best alternative, though it requires constant monitoring and corrrection by an informed citizenry.

    Finger-wiggling, 100%-consensus decision-making works on a commune of 15 or fewer adults, and even then it’s a goddamned hard process to use. Monks, ascetics and others with practically no ego can sometimes make it work, over short periods of time.

    For the rest of us, requiring respect for fundamental rights that cannot be overruled by a tyrrany of the majority, and majority rule on all other questions, is our best hope.

    • Steve Scher

      What you write may be true, but has no relevancy here in this matter.

      • Steve Scher

        Yes Mr Itkin,
        Accept Mr. Polloks admonition.
        You might also have been more flexible when he suggested in Facebook your switch to a muppet was inappropriate.
        I liked it, but I am alas, but a low life.
        :)
        I wish you well Mr.Itkin, I understand fully your situation.

    • edward

      Exactly. You have no respect for OWS in its reality. Good luck with your 99declaration. (And why is it that the defenders of this 99declaration seem to only have the 99declaration as the only grouo to which they belong?)

      • batman

        because they are shills and trolls trying to coopt and subvert OWS. they want to post enough of their bullshit rhetoric here so that they can later quote it as OWS and NYCGA quotes and policy, and give them credibility when they neither have nor deserve any,

  13. sumumba

    “OWS is a failure and there is no backup plan. it is antidemocratic and censors people outside of the narrow agenda of the small elite oligarchy that runs it; I have been down there and I saw them in action; they are a star chamber made up of anarchists and other antidemocratic movements who want everything and nothing. it cannot succeed; it has consumed it’s own oxygen and now the flame is out what a waste. we will press on with the nationwide election of delegates to a National General Assembly”

    “this is an anti-democratic movement and we withdraw our support.”

    Michael Pollok

    if this quote is accurate..why are u even still here?

  14. Jondean

    “The SOA states OWS is not a political party, however, the stated aim of the 99% declaration is to form a third political party. The SOA states that any statement or declaration not released through the GA should be considered to be independent of OWS. ”

    The whole premise for your argument is false, as is shown here: http://theoccupationparty.org/ Which states that “Why Do We Need A Political Party?

    Some claim the will of the 99% is adequately represented by the existing political parties. But the evidence says otherwise. Both the Democratic and Republican parties are equally driven by donors’ dollars (corporate and individual), and are taking actions and supporting policies that benefit corporate and wealthy interests over those of the rest of us. Many of those actions and policies have long-term results that run counter to the best interests of the country as a whole.

    That’s why a separate political party is needed to translate the energy and ideas of the Occupy Wall Street movement and the 99% into concrete, actionable solutions to fix our nation’s problems. Someone needs to act with the needs of the people in mind, not just the privileged elite that funds our elections in order to control our policies.” This group linked directly to the NYC GA group Politics and Electoral Reform.

    Along with such groups as ONH, and Occupy Congress, we are also working towards radical change and purification of our Government. Our process might be different, but our goals are Exactly The Same as OWS’s. Our progress poses no threat to other established groups, which I suspect is the REAL reason so many take issue with our group. If anything, the more groups attack this behemoth, the better our chances of victory.

    The constant attacks make the NYC GA look like a private club, that only those who adhere to the very letter of what is decided FOR them, can participate in. If that is the case, how is the NYC GA any different from the ruling elite??

    • sumumba

      ‘The constant attacks make the NYC GA look like a private club, that only those who adhere to the very letter of what is decided FOR them, can participate in. If that is the case, how is the NYC GA any different from the ruling elite??’

      huh? firstly any ‘attacks’ online do NOT represent OWS …maybe some members maybe not could be trolls second..a private club and the ruling class? ows? laughable again…if anything its quite the opposite ..elite? how..ows is quite pedestrian…but again if u were here or had been around you;d know this…but your comment about ‘purifying’ government…says to me i should and must end this conversation NOW…lol gnite

      • Jondean

        It seems to be more than a “few members” as this is the 3rd request for our removal….for no reason whatsoever. We are, and have always been, working in solidarity of OWS. Our goals are in line with Several other OWS groups. We are now in compliance with Working Group regulations. What exactly is the problem then??

        The only thing I can see is because our process isn’t Exactly like that of OWS’s…or because some may be concerned that we might steal the thunder of other groups who, again, are after the exact same thing we are. We were even criticized for meeting in The Bronx. So, I’m wondering…if we met at 60 Wall Street, changed our process to one that is OWS compliant, would that bring an end to the suspicion, and calls for removal? If we changed the way we want to bring about change to one that is approved by the NYC GA….?

        • batman

          we dont approve or work with tax frauds. we dont agree with any of your goals or methods to achieve them. we dont want to work in the system. we want to tear it down. you have your own beliefs, or so you claim, so fine, go away to your own groups and espouse them. but dont bitch about us not wanting your spam shit here when we dont work together, agree, or support you. when every occupation that has brought the matter of the 99D before their GA’s, you have been banned, ostracized, and denounced. get the hint already. you arent wanted here,.

          • Jondean

            Lol, you need to get out of the cave more Bats…we’ve been accepted by quite a few GA’s, and articles have been posted stating the fact. And since not every member of the 99 is an anarchist, I hardly thing your views speak for the whole movement.

          • Tom McNabb

            Agreed Jondean, and I feel I need to say that I have no part in The 99 Declaration, but I feel it is a worthy avenue of pursuit as PART of a multi-pronged effort to fix what is wrong in our country these days. I DO protest, but I am also cognizant that there are ways to be effective to achieve our goals within the stucture of a representative republic. If that disqualifies me as Occupy material, then consider me gone, and I am FAR to the left of most of the 99 % you purport to speak for.

        • Steve Scher

          I contacted your admin and worked with him to try to bring your group into compliance.
          While doing so Mr Pollok posted a meeting was to be held of the working group.
          No specifics of why.
          The location did not even exist.
          One adult showed up with two 15 month old children.
          The reason Mr Pollok gave for this call for a meeting was to bring the group into compliance.
          The admin had been, with others in your group to locate five to create a working group, as Mr Pollok wrote, to bring them into compliance.
          Working groups do not meet to bring themselves into compliance.
          Working groups meet to work.
          Unable to gain assistance to produce even five to meet to at least create the illusion of a working group,the shift to feigning incredulous shock at the turn of events already described on 99%D Facebook site in mid December as a tactic is not just an indication of desperation, but a acknowledgment of the ineffectiveness of actions taken with such questionable motivation,

          • Jondean

            You leave out the part where you said that you would personally be in attendance, but then did not show up. As did other members of the NYC GA. I was there, and the location was Real….the North Bronx didn’t dissapear, we could have walked accross the street to a new shop. A new meeting will be held this Friday, with more in attendance. And please stop discriminating against children.

          • BradB

            hmmm…. Steve, I could be wrong… but I recall … someone ?… not Michael posted the event for the the meeting… Michael, later re-posted it … and stated “great” or something and that he (Michael) would not be able to make the first meeting due to other commitments.. but he would make the next one…

            so… just to try to get to the facts… Michael did not know of the place… etc.

          • Steve Scher

            please cut and paste where you find i said i would attend.
            thern consider how you are discriminating against someone who has self-identified himself as disabled.
            now reconcile the two.
            Regarding children: Since I say nothing negative about 2 15 month old children, would that mean the act of identifying them as two 15 month old children is in and of itself the act of discrimination you refer to?
            Sophie Diner was given as the location, with no address save the general area in the bronx.
            There is no Sophies Diner.
            The location did not exist.
            Wordsmithing will not change that.
            All of this you now focus on obsticates from the resoloution of the proposal still under discussion.

          • Jondean

            “Steve Scher replied 1 week, 2 days ago
            Would that be in the Bronx?
            ( Sophie’s Diner ,3285 Westchester Ave, Bronx, NY 10461 )” <- You knew the exact address and location where the meeting would be held. The diner closed…but the block didn't vanish. I was right in front of that exact address, which I clearly stated for all to see.

            "Steve Scher replied 6 days, 13 hours ago

            Has Michsel Pollok made arrangements yet to attend ? Given that he wanted to attend and wrote he was busy on a telephone conference call which can be taken by mobile phone it is easy to do so.
            If I thought it would help I’d act the role of Biff, and treat Mr Pollok unfairly trying to push his emotional buttons as though he was Marty McFly and ask him if he’s chicken .
            But this is not a movie.
            The situation is quite real.
            Instead I’d try to appeal to his intellect and simply point out it is logical he be present to answer question that no one else attending could .
            Me Pollok, please come out from behind the curtain.
            Both what you hear and say might turn out a very positive productive exchange which heals .
            Only your presence can make that possible.
            Thank You" <- You stating how you wanted the first meeting to play out…which could hardly happen if you were not in attendance.

            Who exactly is the one wordsmithing here?

  15. sumumba

    only someone who has never been to OWS or its meetings or GA’s and SPOKES or to the 10 other GENERAL ASSEMBLIES in the CITY would state what the above writer just wrote…BEYOND laughable…

  16. the99declaration

    This is a smear campaign orchestrated primarily by Justin Stoner Diaz. Steve Scher and Jack Rabbit. I invite you to go to our web page and see what we are doing. What we are doing supplements and aids the 99% Movement and in now way detracts from local occupations. It will keep media attention focused as we run our election of delegates and prepare for the July meeting in Philadelphia. Please do not listen to these three or four people who are on some kind of vendetta. Steve Scher has been calling the people I work with and he even contacted a judge I appear in front of to try and damage my reputation. We all have the same goals and you are allowing few people to misguide and lie to you.

    • Steve Scher

      And if course visit his Facebook sites, all four and witness the distress of his own members.
      Again, it is untrue to state I made such contacts Mr Pollok describes.
      What he does is not only a smear campaign, but given that his statements are so easily verified as false, it’s a very ineffective smear campaign he’s engaged in.
      It’s almost as though he seeks failure.

  17. sumumba

    “OWS is a failure and there is no backup plan. it is antidemocratic and censors people outside of the narrow agenda of the small elite oligarchy that runs it; I have been down there and I saw them in action; they are a star chamber made up of anarchists and other antidemocratic movements who want everything and nothing. it cannot succeed; it has consumed it’s own oxygen and now the flame is out what a waste. we will press on with the nationwide election of delegates to a National General Assembly”

    “this is an anti-democratic movement and we withdraw our support.”

    Michael Pollok

    i ask AGAIN…..if this quote is accurate..why are u even still here on this site?

  18. wayne a peischl

    Time is running out . The 99% probably has 101 different opinions about how to fix things. The 1% knows if we do not unite they can go on business as usual. I would say they are probably right. My guess is. We will invade Iran with in a year. The Soldiers will go, and the people will back them up with tax money. A lot of people will get richer off of oil and the military complex and a lot of solders and civilians will be killed .
    So far, all I have seen is a little spark of unity . I realize a lot of people may feel encouraged by the last 4 months of protest ect. But have you forgotten what you are up against???? They will stop at nothing!!!! They own the Media ,the politicians ,the banks , the oil companies, the military, the police force, the voting polls, the schools, the highways, the sewer systems, on and on .If you think you have a chance of beating them with just protest or just lawyers. You are WRONG they will win! You must unite!!! The Occupy Wall Street spark, lite a fire . It created a base of like minded people around the world, we must use our intelligence to make this work for us. Together if? we can get a large % of the population behind us we have a chance. You may think you have new ideas that have not been tried Remember Kent state ? Take a look at other countries protest aroud the world. They are REAL. The best chance is the perfect storm. Which means we need to forget about our differences put our heads and numbers together, unite, and appeal to the Masses . You need to think about how you can get people off their couch, away from their game boys, and football games long enough to see whats going on around them. You yourselves all so must realize that you need more than your Little Occupy commune or Facebook friends to change the world. Its like the Republicans and the democrats talking about what’s best for the country and forgetting about the people living down the street are doing and thinking (The OWS and the 99% Declaration) We need to combine forces and multiply. We need to gather all the other organizations out there and move forward. We need the legal documents the organize the protest and we need to get in to the suburbs Senates offices, congresspersons offices . I know some of you believe in Direct democracy .So do I, but it only works on a local level (sorry) . say maybe up to 50 people than it looses it’s intimacy and breaks down .It’s kind of like your family it work find at home but once you leave your house, not every body plays by the same rules. I believe in the basic premise of the Constitution (Nature Law ). I just think the politics were bought out. If you have a nice car and the driver gets drunk .You don’t abandon the car you get a new sober driver. I know, on, and on, and on, Just don’t get me started.
    LOVE Wayne
    There Is That Of GOD In All Of US
    (or What ever you believe)

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      no. Time is not running out. Haste action makes waste actions. There is no need to hurry.

  19. Roy Forbes

    Based on what I’ve read on the 99D Facebook page, over a period of weeks, I have to agree with the following statements from the proposal above:
    “…the 99% Declaration has, for months, been using the symbols and language of the Occupy Movement to solicit funds…”
    “The 99% Declaration has also solicited funds presenting its own initiatives as though they were sanctioned by OWS.”
    “…has not reached consensus in any meaningful way on any of its pronouncements.”
    NYCGA, it’s your issue, I can only state what I’ve personally seen.

  20. Greta Ann

    Is it not a fact that we are all working for the same end? The 99% Declaration must work within the current system of government in order to make any sort of an impact. OWS did spark an interest of millions of like minded people, myself included – I’m not from NYC or any other metro area. The 99% is NOT just OWS groups following a structure, it’s all of us. IMO it is necessary to redress the government. The past and currrent administration have made some very disturbing laws in recent years, months, and days. I have been saying all along – Together we Stand and Divided we Fall. Actually, I when you think about the evolution, as I know it, of this movement is basically OWS ignited the spark and continues to keep the fire burning, the 99% Declaration is opening the door of communication – as provided for in our constitution – for change. What happens next is speculation. I agree with Wayne above, we must unite! Only then will we ever have a chance of real change. Also, IMHO, if, down the road, a new political party is an outcome, then it is the natural evolution of what we the people want.

    In solidarity!!
    Greta Ann

    • edward

      Solidarity doesn’t mean uniting 99declaration and OWS. In any movement, there are various organizations, as well as styles and methods and tactics and strategies and goals for those organizations. 99Declaration should do its own reformist thing. OWS can continue in a radical flanks fashion. Why 99declaration keeps demanding infiltration into and expecting money from OWS is mysterious.

  21. Eric Greenberg

    When I was first introduced to the 99% declaration a few months ago it struck me as a good idea, and I have been following it since as a ‘fan’ on the FB page, and then I contributed $20 and am happy to have done so. I’m looking again, right now, at the 99% declaration itself, and I have a really hard time thinking that anyone who was out protesting would have a problem with any of the ‘suggestions’ that are part of it. Too me, the potential solutions that the 99% declaration provide are an excellent step forward and at the very least provide a useful framework to actually do something pro-active, rather than reactive.

    Also, while it is true that it uses the words ’99 percent’, and ‘Occupy’, and ‘General Assembly’, I had not realized that those were terms that ‘belonged’ to OWS. I had thought that those words belong to the people who were trying to make a difference.

    Reading the content on this page and many of the comments, it seems like many people cannot see the forest for the trees.

  22. Steve Scher

    It’s a damn shame that one persons actions and words could let the good, the sincere people associated with the very alias Mr Pollok has chosen , the 99 declaration into this horrible and so painfully depressing situation.
    In all my years I have never encountered someone as mean spirited as Mr Pollok, and that his very words, profane and otherwise are identified with these good people, it sees so….l
    Criminal ?
    Unfortuntely the outcome is obvious, as it was so designed.
    Shame on you.
    Shame.

    • Kristen Forthun

      Seriously? I have seen him get rude and ignorant but it is BY FAR not the worst I have seen. He takes criticism very well and has been introspective. We are all working very hard over at the 99D and from time to time we break down but we support each other and carry on another day. The guy is going above and beyond for our group. And if he is the worst you have come across well I would say you do not get out much. We all put a foot in a mouth from time to time. This guy and many of our volunteers are doing incredible work over at the 99D. This can be your group to, join us, help us. I wish you would leave this guy alone and ask some other folks at the 99D what is up. He is doing enough already for you to expect him to stop everything and answer you directly is SLOWING US DOWN. Join US! And come complain with us and to us :)

      • Steve Scher

        please review the attempts made Mr. Pollok as so carefully deleted in the fourms.
        They still remain in facebook.
        Honest.

        • claire mooney

          I think what your group is doing is fine, it’s just not the same as occupy wall street. it may be an offshoot inspired by that, and that’s great! i would be sincerely happy if it worked.
          however, mr pollok, esq, has been profane and arrogant, which is not cooperative. i tried to get involved, but became intimidated by anger and the lack of cooperation with others. i’m glad @kristen forthun, that your experience has been different.

          if any occupier reads about 99d, most of their clauses were clearly inspired by OWS. if OWS is the inspiration for a group that does end up getting a list of demands noted by politicians, then hey, why not! Let’s just focus on civility and proper, respectful representation of ourselves and others in the meantime.

          and also, while 99d isn’t necessarily compatible with ows as a group, let’s remember that productive, inclusive discourse with individuals IS necessary for ows to grow.

          peace,
          claire

          • batman

            you are right, and i am pretty deep on the blame chart as far as anger and insults go. i take looking out for my brothers and sisters too seriously at times, and let it turn vicious. i apologize for that, and for participating in a nasty catfight. doesnt mean i dont think they are a fraud, and have no business referring to us, using our name, or even being here with false work groups, but i will endeavor to at least remember to keep it more civil, even when provoked. besides, as my partner reminded me, i dont need to inject vitriol when the facts speak for themselves

  23. Steve Scher

    Forgive the poor attempt to provide laughter to relieve the pain, but does anyone know who took the strawberry ice cream.
    For further details please go to http://www.BaysideFriend.com
    As I recall Jose Ferrer raises some excellent points at the end.
    If only this situation was in anyway similar.
    Good night all

  24. michael

    Thank you Brett, Occupy Wall Street. I am glad this page is down and gone. I have always felt suspicious of them. Thank you. The only thing they can do is join us and not become a cult of the Occupy Movement. I hope you can repeatedly post this and remind us because a lot of newbies to our movement is coming in still and being proselytized by them. I am in solidarity with Wall Street. my Facebook page is http://www.facebook.com/caoccupation and web page is http://www.caoccupation.org Michael Contreras

    • Steve Scher

      It is one thing to be bold, it is quite another thing to be careless.
      The result will be good previously honest people going down with you.
      Shame.

      • Steve Scher

        Correction:It is one thing to be bold Mr. Pollok, it is quilts another thing to be careless. The result will be good, previously honest people going down with you.

  25. Kat Brag

    Hi All -

    I am the 99% Declaration! I need your brain power to help fix our government and save our country!

    Can we all stop fighting and start getting ready for July 4th? There is a lot to do and very little time to do it.

    People near our help; they need jobs and healthcare. The planet is in jeopardy.

    There are so many great thinkers here. Imagine what we would accomplish if we focused on solutions instead of fighting!

    peace, out

    • edward

      I do notice that none of the 99declaration folks belong to more than one group on here, and if they do, it is only the 99declaration wg. Kat, we’d love to join you, but we have an Occupation going on right now. Which you are free to join, but it appears you are busy with a Declaration. So let’s all do what we do best.

      • Steve Scher

        But apparently at least one 99%D member belongs to one group twice under two names.
        Funny…..

  26. Kristen Forthun

    Thank you all NYCGA folks, volunteers are working quite hard over at The 99% Declaration. I wish you all to join us and give your input and ideas. It sounds like most of you understand we are not an enemy or a group out to hurt folks, I don’t really know all of what people dislike about us but I’m sure it will work out for all of us. Thank you for standing up with us and for us, as we stand with and for you as well. I understand all the questioning and argument, it is good for us to gain clarity.

  27. michael

    There is no hurry. We are doing fine. I really don’t think some of those in the 99% cult understand about transparency and accountability. If only they would report how much they earn and from whom. Those of us can remember the Reform party back in its day.

    • Steve Scher

      Is that Michael S. Pollok.nooooooo can’t be :)
      just coincidence
      welcome michael #2
      amazed you go back to tammany…..

    • Paula Smith

      Who do they “earn” their money from? Mostly from people like me who donated $5 in November and $10 in December, but some who are better off have donated more. We’re not talking about the half-a-million dollars OWS has raked in, but somewhere in the neighborhood of $26,000 so far. Do you want to know how the money is being spent? $4500 went to a deposit on the venue where the delegates will meet, and $1400 has been spent for t-shirts. We’re waiting for a second bid this week on a secure voting system for the election of delegates. Michael himself paid out-of-pocket for legal filings and to produce the commercial ($2000 for production, licensing of the music, etc. and $10,000 to air it on Current TV twice a day for a week) and someone else donated $5000 to air it the second time during Keith Olbermann’s “best of” week when the fee was half-price. We’re certainly not receiving any money from a Canadian magazine or any other corporate interest. What else would you like to know?

      • edward

        Given your disdain toward OWS, I’d like to know why you are here.

  28. wayne a peischl

    DOD Identifies Army Casualty

    The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

    Spc. Pernell J. Herrera, 33, of Espanola, N.M., died Dec. 31, in Helmand province, Afghanistan, of injuries suffered in a non-combat incident. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 171st Aviation Regiment, Santa Fe, N.M.
    http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=14987

  29. michael

    A good rule of thumb that that 99% cult doesn’t have the spirit of OWS. One can tell because there is always fighting in that group. What have they done on their own except steal and ride on the coat tails of honest people. We have Occupied the Rose Parade, Occupied many things. This 99% cult only wants to occupy your wallet.

      • Urbaned

        I would highly appreciate if people in your group stop badmouthing, cursing at, and manipulating people on this website. I’ve had enough of this for 3 months already.

        • Paula Smith

          How many people from 99% Declaration are abusing NYCGA members? I am aware of one. How many NYCGA members come to our FB pages to flame and spread lies? Shall I start naming names?

  30. Elizabeth Adams

    I am a supporter of the 99% Declaration group. I encourage everyone to check it out. http://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/. The people working their asses off on this are no less OWS/99% -ers than any of us. Shooting us/them down like this is hurting the movement more than anything else I’ve seen so far.

    The 99% Declaration is a bold, necessary step in unseating the defacto plutarchy. From the beginning they have strived to maintain transparency and gain input, stressing that nothing is set in stone — that it will be for the delegates in July to decide.

    Like the OWS movement in general, this is what democracy looks like. THIS will scare the 1%. THIS is a game changer.

  31. michael

    Reading the post again. It looks like this group has deceived people. This group sounds weird. It is a cult to the real and spirit of Occupy Wall Street. I know some people will not accept this right now, but there is counseling for people who come out of cults. Please step back and ask yourself is this a cult. Here is a website to support my claims. http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

      • michael

        Yes, it is the same page as the organization. In the beginning, the same language was on this as it was on the Facebook page. After their website was exposed and denounce, the 99% group went to Facebook. http://www.cultwatch.com/

        • Jondean

          That’s not our group Michael that you just called a cult…that’s the Politics & Electoral Reform working group…

          Are ALL the working groups cults?

          • Michael Andrew Contreras

            Do you have inside information to share? 99% percent doctrine states that it will turn to a political party. Tell me about the group. Are they not the same except just a different group name?

    • Paula Smith

      We at 99% Declaration are dedicated to actually doing something to change things in Washington. OWS seeks to change the world which will take many many years, while we intend to make changes here in the United States NOW. The 99% cannot wait for the sort of paradigm shift that OWS is trying to achieve. After our Petition is served, one of two things will happen: the government will ignore it, in which case we will work to elect representatives in the 2014 general election who will represent US instead of the 1% and their corporate masters, or the government will take our effort to heart and actually redress our grievances. In either case, nothing we do will have any effect on the goals and work of OWS.

  32. Kat Brag

    I am the 99% Declaration. We have been called the tea party; now we are a cult. Really?

    What we aim to accomplish is quite difficult. We have limited funds and volunteers using Facebook.

    Call us whatever you want, but our work continues regardless.

    peace out (2)

  33. michael

    Here is the website of a cult. http://www.cultwatch.com/ I am not trying to be funny. I have read posts on Facebook and different locations of people who are disillusioned by the 99 percent doctrine. Usually, a cult is birth after it denounces its principles that keep everybody in unity. In solidarity with Wall Street is not just a slogan, it is a principle for me. Cuts do happen to innocent people. There has been a history of cults. Please click on the link for more information. I am sorry if this sounds mean or if I am sounding harsh, or anybody thinks that I am gesturing them. Far be it. Cults usually take money away from people who have the least of it.

  34. Steve Scher

    Update: After the above post I made, I recieved the following via facebook.
    It corrects the issue of who deleted an ongoing vote.
    It confirms that the deletion occured. Unfortunetly it does not deal with:
    1) If there was a ongoing vote to choose the name for the July event, and that vote was interrupted, wherew was it resumed? From what I observe, it was not.
    2) If there was a vote being taken to choose the way to identity the event, why was Mr. Michael S. Pollok already using a name, repeatedly, which had not been chosen?

    Steve Scher

    Posted on 99%D Website: See there you go again…. ( directed to Michael S. Pollok Esq.) The vote on your own Facebook site as to what to call it got deleted…no name is finalized by your own people…but you’re calling it ” The National General Assembly”. What will you do if your own people choose a more appropriate name like ”The 99% Declaration Assembly ”… Over turn their vote….oh wait.l.thats right….that vote got deleted and Kat had to post a request for you to put it up again….from scratch of course….
    I suppose you consider the above spam, or a personal attack…
    Honest Mr Pollok, it’s just business. If you delete your own forums, destroy any possibility of your own people, particularly the newer ones from reading your groups history…it’s discussion…it’s votes or rather lack if votes.
    You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Shame on you.
    You bring dishonor to your profession, already too often maligned, and upon the good people who put their trust in you.

    Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · Sunday at 4:42pm

    Dan Long and Love Joy like this..

    Nanette J Wheeler-Carter Actually Steve, It was my posting and I deleted it – not Michael – just to clarify… So if you want to be upset at someone I’m the person to blame this poll on..
    9 hours ago · Like.

    Kat Brag If the 99% Declaration fails, the 1% wins! Way to go Steve!
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher sigh….didn’t know i had all that power :D
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher seriously i know your sincere and bear in mind i liked the concept…..
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher but face it….you’ve been done an injustice
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher and it was avoidable had he delegated
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher its not just that he’s not a people person
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher i wish you all well
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Kat Brag you have over 4,000 friends; that is something. Gotta go plan an event in Philadelphia on July 4th. peace, out
    7 hours ago · Like

    • batman

      ” If the 99% Declaration fails, the 1% wins! Way to go Steve!”

      yet another shill trying to propagandize and manipulate. just like the fascists in power, they try to persuade all that if you don’t go along with their way, you are helping the enemy. just like the current regime in DC claiming that if you don’t vote for NDAA you are voting for terrorists,

      we dont fall for their lies, and we dont fall for yours, 99D shills

      • Michael Andrew Contreras

        We need the 99 percent doctrine pollock group to fail. They have hijacked our name our ideas. And are trying to box the spirit of occupy wall street and turn people into delegates, back to the old system. What happens in the system is that there will be corporate donors still and lobbyist.

  35. the99declaration

    Steve just stay away from me and the people I work with and we can co-exist. There is a limit, however, and you crossed the line when you emailed a judge I appear before all the time who then called me. You are jeopardizing the pro bono services I provide for OWS protestors because I may now have to withdraw from representing them. You have created a conflict of interest by drawing a judge into this. You are a loose cannon how cannot exhibit any self control. You are hurting a lot of people with your posts. I have been a lawyer for almost 20 years and nothing you can say can phase me. I worry about the people you are harming by your acts including the thousands of people who are working on the National General Assembly. I will keep this group or our group informed as to whether I have to stop representing protestors pro bono because of Steve Scher’s contacts with a Judge who is hearing some of those cases locally. I am also advising several other students pro bono regarding their cases in Manhattan and if Scher contacts those judges I will definitely withdraw from those representations.

    • batman

      lies and manipulations. we arent your facebook suckers, liar. and if you were pissed at that, i guess you will be really mad when you are served in an IRS investigation into your tax status for the 99D , which in my opinion is forthcoming, if not already underway. trying to lawyer lie your way around tax laws by saying ‘we arent supporting candidates, we just might down the line’ sounds all nifty to the drones on facebook, but in tax court it will play like simple fraud, in my opinion.

    • Steve Scher

      If I recall correctly what you told me in your call to me Mr. Pollok, you advised your clients to ” take the deal”.
      Although you expressed an awareness your clients did not, could not hear any annoucements on Brooklyn Bridge when your 7 or 8 students were among over 700, you chose to make a deal.
      I am aware you represent white collar ciminals, Wall Street types who are of the 1%. I suppose some see fines or even jail time as a part of the cost of making their profit, and logically one must cut expenses making taking a deal preferable.
      However Justice brings Harmony.
      You Mr. Pollok are the antithesis of Harmony.
      It is self evident.
      Considering those you call your people choose to contact me on face book ( as above) its rather hard to do as you ask an stay away.
      Since you called me ( twice ) it is questionable as to your motivations.
      I agree, you have been a lawyer for 20 years and nothing, as you put it, can phase you.
      Nothing I say is designed to do so.
      Pro Bono to effectivly plead guilty is pro bono which provides tainted Justice.
      I suppose you sincerly believe what you write as you write it, even when it contradicts your words elsewhere or the facts as they are.

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      Please just stop your “pro bono service.” it isn’t pro bono if you have some element of this for that. Actually, you are taking advantage of helpless people who don’t know the formalities of being a lawyer in the courtroom. I think the new York state bar needs to investigate your actions. This is totally a conflict of interest. There are many other organizations that give pro bono service. shame on you mr. Pollok.

    • claire mooney

      Okay I apologize for bringing the Judge into this, @the99declaration. It’s just that one of your comments, Mr Pollok, led me to feel the need to remind you that you cannot act unconstitutionally. I was naive. I sent the judge whose name I shouldn’t have mentioned an email trying to clarify that this whole situation was my mistake. I should NOT have brought his name into this and I SINCERELY apologize for any problems it may have caused you professionally.

      @steve scher, please, please, please leave the judge out of this. I think that you deserve respect online, but please, please, please promise me that you will not contact the judge again. I made a serious mistake.

      • Steve Scher

        i have no reason to contact the judge, never did until his name was given in conjunction with an order of protection.
        i had no knowledge of the judge before then
        i only wish to put your mind at ease, and of course i will leave the judge out of this.
        you have my word.
        the only exception to that would be based on the judges privilaged response to me.
        only time and karma will reveal the future, as it should be.

  36. Steve Scher

    The point of disagreement between the 6 or 8 individuals who make up the core of the 99%D group and OWS I believe can be found at the bottom lines of the following, from mid-December:

    Peedro Paula

    OWS is all about direct democracy. 99% Declaration is not. Since we cannot participate according to their demands as an OWS group, I suggest that we formally withdraw from NYC-GA before they evict us. Keep in mind that I’m only speaking of OWS NYC-GA and NOT the Occupy movement as a whole which NYC-GA cannot truly claim to represent. I’m not religious, but Jesus said “Cast not your pearls before swine.” I’m not suggesting that NYC-GA members are pigs or that their organization as a whole is either, but we already have cast our pearls before those who would trample them, so I recommend that we pick them up, dust them off, and share them with those of like minds.

    December 16, 2011 at 6:03pm

    Kat Brag, Mark Greene, Jondean Walwyn and 10 others like this..

    Margaret Motheral yes – they do– and I think dialogue toward finding the commonality is important and creative and blind mutual attack is only destructive. Nobody will agree on everything- but finding the points of agreement can calm the fire and create more tolerance for the differences.
    December 18, 2011 at 12:43pm · 1.

    Peedro Paula Margaret, I am 100% representative democracy. You don’t need to convince me!
    December 18, 2011 at 12:43pm

    • batman

      if you think thats nuts, you should see the stuff they say about us when they dont know several operation clean house members are amoung them.

  37. Steve Scher

    Is it possible that is transpiring in the form of statements made here by this core group of the 99%D is simply to provide self-serving text to be used as needed at a later time to serve as a tool to continue their disagreement using imagery such as of cults ?
    However the bottom line still remains, they are not a new york city working group of the ows general assembly.
    They never were.
    They fooled me.
    I supported the idea of a 99%D.
    I still do.

    However what is termed representitive democracy by this core appears to be a following of Mr. Michael S. Pollok, aka “the99Declaration” and perhaps now also the new Michael who if it is the same individual is now also in based in occupy california( I for one cannot believe Mr. Pollok would be so bold as to create an identity with a california occupy connection…it has to be another person….right? :( )
    I never considered what connecting the dots could indicate.
    For example, if indeed the person responsible for deleteing an ongoing vote was not Mr. Pollok, is it possible that the deletion of the ongoing vote was made at his instruction? That there is a core group of followers who would sabotage their own internal mechanisms for decision making, post a request to Mr. Pollok to put the poll back, which never occurs as he continues to use a name he choose which draws on the strength of the General Assemblys by incorporating those words with “National” ?
    Is this the pattern which has emerged?
    Doesn’t really matter.
    There is no working group.

    • the99declaration

      You continue to attack and defame our members and our not for profit organization and now call them cultists. You are really forcing me as the attorney for the organization to respond. Dingbat lives in Kentucky and a waste of time, but you are in Bayside and subject to jurisdiction in NY. have almost had enough of you; so keep pushing your way into a courtroom you are almost there.

      • claire mooney

        @the99declaration:
        Here in America, we have free speech. Protected by the first amendment in the constitution. Are you trying to reference libel laws here? His speech is not dangerous. It just disagrees with your ideas.
        Please respect others right to free speech, especially if you want Americans, OWS, etc to accept you.
        Peace,
        Claire

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      No, I am different one. I just added my lat name to avoid confusion. I have some skills in building a committee. And everything that the 99 % doctrine does ( aka mr. Pollock) is wrong. You can read my intro to see why I am here. Peace.

        • Michael Andrew Contreras

          Thanks Steve. I enjoy your posts here. You are like protecting us from the 99% indoctrination pollock group. Keep it up. I am thinking of an idea for a working group that can help people identify an occupy wall street solidarity group, and not just call themselves a working group of wall street. I know some are going to try to profit from this, like wolves in sheep’s clothing. It would be good if we established a checklist to see who somebody is, and who they are associated with. We never know we might find officers in our group. I am just thinking about this. The idea is there but maybe I didn’t explain my thought clearly.

  38. the99declaration

    More false information from these two. Our facilitation committee is made up of the six and soon to be seven board members and the chairs of the ten primary committees of venue and delegate housing, fundraising, PR, media, election coordination, tech, voter registration, delegate registration, OWS/99% outreach. They then have committees who work on putting the plan into effect. All finances are published on our financial transparency page. The contracts have been signed and the deposit placed. We also make all major decisions using an online polling system. You have both been banned from all three FB pages by the various admins so no wonder you have no idea what you are talking about.

  39. Steve Scher

    I believe Mr. Pollok that you trying to intimidate me.
    I have already advised you you have succeded, several times.
    You continue to do so.
    Its ok.
    I acknowledge what you write does phase me.
    Its ok Mr. Pollok.
    You have that power.

  40. Steve Scher

    ahhh…… much better….
    I want to apologize for some of the above.
    The type of personal interaction does not belong here, which I did participate in.
    Harmony.

    • Steve Scher

      Awake now…..not sure if it was a dream only..a nightmare…a vision….quite odd….amendment made at ga ….working group occurs….occupiers attend…take part….shift direction from within…plans made based on rejection of 99%D to gain exposure by using expulsion from ows ny to show off as “better” alternative now that bad bad ows throws them out is moot…undone….99%D working group comes up with online method to achieve same result of 890 original plan….millions vote…..constant online dialogue ..
      Pollok revered as saint for initiating process…..

      Ok I’m not sure about the last part.

  41. vets74

    Either this “99% Declaration” is part of the NYCGA and OWS and should be using these resources, or not.

    We have had two odd and substantial contribution-collecting operations appear since September 17th that claimed connection with OWS. There should be no ambiguity of resource, word, or deed as to the separations.

    This is about money. The smaller effort involved a reported $20,000 and a cash demand to NYCGA/OWS of some $6,000. This “99% Declaration” effort could well involve hundreds of thousands of dollars through 2012.

    OWS was founded to use nonviolent direct actions and, at least in New York, to go after the effects of massive corporation-driven corruption. “99% Declaration” is a different species of political animal altogether.

    • Kat Brag

      99% D has been raising funds from small contributions.

      Gotta go. Hope my facts have been helpful.

      peace out (3)

      • batman

        that is not entirely true, either.. what about the 18k donation? you know the one michael refuses to disclose the source of? i appreciate your trying to spread light, i really do, and i hope you are simply misinformed and will eventually see the light. but even if you dont, be safe, happy, and know that as a member of humankind you are loved, even if you are on the wrong side of history.

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      Yes, ths is a different species of a political beast. They are very daring because they are trying co-opt the spirit OWS. I think this 99 potluck group is a way for banks and foreign countries to influence a group of people.

        • Steve Scher

          Well…. You have to at least give him a “A” for paranoia.
          I’m jealous.

          Of course there is that joke…. Or was it movie….
          Hmmmmm Conspiracy Theory….loved that flic.. Z

          • Michael Andrew Contreras

            lol. yeah, i forget take my pills to curb my paranoia. hopefully, it doesn’t come out again. :)

  42. Michael Andrew Contreras

    Some of us are old enough to remember how the reform party was wrongly built. This is the same methods as the 99% pollock group. The reform part is not doing any reforming today. We still have the same corruption. What happened in that time is that the bankers squashed the spirit of the reform arty. The pollock 99 group might have help from bankers, and will try to only box the movement. I think since they hijacked the 99 percent name. We might need to somehow work to expose them as a political party since this is what they are aiming to do.

    • Paula Smith

      Georges Restaurant
      3000 Buhre Ave Bronx, NY 10461 in Pelham Bay
      3pm on Friday, January 6, 2012

      the last I heard.

        • Paula Smith

          Check back in before hand to make sure the location hasn’t changed, but that’s where I heard it will be. Being as I’m in L.A., I won’t be there but I do hope you can make it and that you and Michael can hash out some of your differences.

  43. Michael Andrew Contreras

    I always find it odd when 4-5 people attemp to do something at a national political level never serve at a local level in politics. The 99 polluck declaration is nothing more than a power grab. What arrogance. Now It should be time to turn them off.

  44. the99declaration

    I think we should stop the name calling and move on. We are not interested in power or influence or co-opting. We wan to have a meeting in Philadelphia to draft a petition of grievances. We would like OWS to run candidates for delegates. We are just providing the venue and the open transparent election by a leading independent election company. What the delegates do or not do with the opportunity is up to them.

    • David Mauriello

      Can we focus on our objective here? If a few people think our idea is not for them so be it. We have more important work to do than convincing a few people that what were doing is a positive forward step towards addressing corporate greed and the oppression of the American public. We have millions to reach, those who do not want to help need not apply.

      • batman

        “our objective” here, in this thread, is the removal of the 99D from OWS as it has been disavowed in countless other Occupations.

        • Paula Smith

          Countless? I thought you said 40 other Occupations had rejected us.

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      Nobody from occupy wall street ask you formally to do this. Are you the attorney?

      • David Mauriello

        formally to do what? Nobody asked you to pretend to know everything. Who needs to formally ask anyone to fight the government. It’d
        s a constitutional right.

    • batman

      i think you shiould go away and peddle your wares elsewhere the is a proposal to join Occupy Philly and boot your group to the curb. that is what this is about, not your monomaniacal ramblings and delusions of grandeur.

      • Steve Scher

        i think batman your comment is out of line, and not at all helpful.
        when you click ” post comment” do you do so to voice your immediate self, or do you consider what YOUR objective is and whether your words once posted will move you towards or away that objective.
        If its the latter I must ask, what is your objective?

    • Steve Scher

      the99declaration said on January 3, 2012 : “I think we should stop the name calling and move on ….(snip)”

      the99declaration said on January 3, 2012 : “I count four people in opposition to our group on a website with 7OOO members. Fascinating”

      what an odd way to move on.

      • Michael Andrew Contreras

        Why do you have lie about membership. We have more likes than the “99% declaration ” cell.

        • Steve Scher

          i don’t think the statement from mr. pollok is a lie.
          he is within his rights to state a belief, in that case without specifiying the group , or what is meant by opposition. he can clearly choose to identify four people.

          secondly it is meant as bait, to draw some poor unsuspecting soul into interaction with him.

          frankly at this state of the game mr ;pollok can post anything, such as the suggestion name calling stop, and as evidenced by his immediate follow up he’s now baited you into respondingm to.

          he is irrational
          so im going to eat dinner
          laters

  45. BradB

    You know this whole opposition to this group or any group is silly………

    This is what the Occupy movements are all about… “trying to do shit… trying to accomplish something… trying to fix the problems… discussing ideas… bringing awareness to the masses…. arguing validly and accuracy of discussion…. educating… all leading to “Building Consensus”.. and with consensus we have solidarity….

    who cares that they use “99%” in their name ? … there are thousands of projects using “99%” … “99%” identify’s opposition to the 1%… is that not what we want ?

    and if any of us believe that they are not representing the 99%… explain to them why … don’t simply try to censor them …. (that’s what the 1% do …the 1% try’s to censor us) …. and after respectful discussion you can be sure that all would have gained….

    worried about them co-opting OWS ? … they can’t do that … no-one can unless we allow it….
    all we have to do is publicly disclaim the affiliation as a official project…

    and regardless that the primary leader/facilitator is not very “people” oriented… ;) … or is the world’s worst politician ..;) … or fly’s of his handle once in a while… and really should consider an “anger management class” … hehe .. (me too … and I’m sure many of us fall into that catagory)

    that doesn’t mean that the project is not worthy of continuing it’s efforts… and in Occupy style it should be allowed to use any Occupy site — provided it strives to include the 99%…

    are some of us worried that the 99Declaration is too big a goal? …. to big a statement?… we shouldn’t be….fixing the government… is just one small tiny step of what is ahead of us… we have international stuff to consider… and economic and employment problems to address… regardless of who’s in office…

    let’s stop simply trying to “censor”… and trying to attack each-other for personal reasons… let’s focus on the issues… the topics & possible solutions of the problems we are facing as a people… and we might actually fix the world….

    We ALL are the 99%… (except maybe a very few greedy fucks)…We can do this… ;)

    • batman

      brad.. let me clear up some misconceptions you seem to be having. the 99D is a fraud. a scam. they are an attempt by a few to profit from and destroy from within the OWS. Occupy Philly, and numerous other Occupations, have investigated, discussed and come to the same conclusion: the 99D is NOT a real attempt by anyone to further OWS goals. That is why they and others have formally disassociated their OWS groups from the 99D. this is the NYCGA OWS site, not the ‘hey everyone who wants to make a new group for whatever purposes is welcome here’ group.

      • Steve Scher

        Lets assume for discussions sake it is a sham,a fraud…..I was unaware we had taken on the role of a district attorney, or grand jury.

        Disclaiming affiliation publically is logical.

        I see nothing else to actively do at the moment.
        Am I missing something?

      • BradB

        hmmm, batman… ;)

        well … I disagree a bit … I don’t believe that 99D is a fraud. a scam … in any way … that might not have the same goals of OWS, or even the understanding … but they are very clear and open about what “they” (the 99D) are trying to do … Michael (personally) gets a bit drastic at times… but so what… we all do… no ? ….
        further I don’t believe that they want to or are trying to “further OWS goals” … most of them don’t even understand OWS’s.. (if you havn’t spent time in ZP or reading the OWS forums… it’s very difficult to know what OWS goals are……so.. so what ? ;)

        we still should not censor anyone from trying to become part of the Occupy movements.. imo… I mean seriously ..think about the OWS forum… you will see many come there and post that they are part of the 1% and start out critical of the movement… after much discussion, questions & answers… many of them walk away with a new view,,, and we then have gained another supporter… we have built constituency…

        it’s really what this is all about… promoting awareness, building constituency, building consensus and then solidarity…

        we should not send anyone away… we need everyone… or at 99% no? ;)

        peace ;)

        • BradB

          typo:….we should not send anyone away… we need everyone… or at “least” 99% no?

          • Steve Scher

            My concern centers about process.
            Internally within that working group.
            The question would have to be addressed

          • Steve Scher

            its now only 12-24 hours since I voiced support for Brad’s post with the words :”Logical….I like it” , followed by the above :” My concern centers about process.
            Internally within that working group.
            The question would have to be addressed”
            ****************************************************************
            One point of process would be how and why members are removed from this group.
            That apparently was done to me between the time I voiced support for Brad’s post and my concern about process, and now.
            There is a pattern here.
            It has not changed.
            It put the entire group at risk as it violates the rules, as was pointed out numourous times.
            My key question to start is simple: WHO removed me as I slept from membership in 99%D working group?
            Thank You
            -Steve Scher
            http://www.BaysideFriend@yahoo.com
            718 347 4818
            BaysideFriend@yahoo.com

        • BradB

          ironic huh ? …. a group fighting to not be banned … banning others… hehe

          peace ;)

          • Steve Scher

            considering one of the reasons for the action to ” ban” the group is a history of repeated banning of members, deletion enmass of whole discussion forums, topics, contents and all….
            i would not say ironic.
            i might say contrived.
            i would most certainly say predictable.
            …and not to detract from your kind words…i genuinley appreciate them….no justice, no peace
            so a qualified ” peace ” right back at ya
            ;)

    • Lee Bee

      I have no opinion as to whether this group is a scam or not, but if they’re soliciting funds in the name of OWS… and we have no idea where those funds are going – we leave ourselves very exposed, especially under NDAA. (Bad enough we sometimes have no idea where our own funds are going!)

      Also, please consider: You say, “worried about them co-opting OWS ? … they can’t do that … no-one can unless we allow it…. all we have to do is publicly disclaim the affiliation as a official project…” –It’s not that easy. Once a rogue group hijacks our name or pretends to be our mouthpiece, it’s often too late to repair the damage. For instance, there’s no way to publicly disclaim to all the people who read about the people with OWS flags – and the Communist Chinese flag – who hijacked a solemn vigil for Pvt Daniel Chen, and acted like a-holes. And there’s no way to remove the insult from Pvt Chen’s family, and his community. We can respond online and say, Oh, it wasn’t us, but enough hijackings of that sort and the ill-will they breed will effectively co-opt the rest of us.

      Respectfully,
      Leora

      • BradB

        Leora, ;) I appreciate your worries… but I need to put into perspective the level of what we are fighting… this is serious shit…

        to “everyone” here… who has been.. so concerned about who dots the I’s and crosses the t’s …. and have forgotten our mission… here’s a reminder…

        let’s STOP this infighting… is will destroy us faster than any legal mistake….
        ______________________________________________________________

        As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

        As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

        They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
        They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
        They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
        They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
        They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
        They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
        They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
        They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
        They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
        They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
        They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
        They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
        They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
        They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
        They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
        They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
        They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
        They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
        They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
        They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
        They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
        They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
        They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
        To the people of the world,

        We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

        Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

        To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

        Join us and make your voices heard!

        *These grievances are not all-inclusive.

        • batman

          to call it ‘infighting’ elevates them to a level they dont have. this isnt a power struggle. this isnt a group of OWS against other OWS. its an outside group with dissimilar goals and methods, with 1% backing and support, trying to subvert and coopt OWS. its an outside group that has been disavowed after tireless investigation in Occupy Philly. all the facts have been stated and restated.. but to call this internal strife is a misnomer. its an outside group trying to inflict themselves where they arent wanted. feel free to believe in the methods of the 99D. its everyones right. but that isnt what OWS is about. they have their place, and it isnt ours.

          • BradB

            As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that “ALL PEOPLE” who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that “WE ARE YOUR ALLIES”.

          • BradB

            Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to “EVERYONE”.

            To “ALL COMMUNITIES” that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

          • BradB

            “AS ONE PEOPLE”, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race “REQUIRES THE COOPERATION OF IT’S MEMBERS”;

      • Tom Gillis

        The site admins here have been putting together acceptable use policies for the site (since those policies are going through a consensus process) but I’m pretty sure that soliciting funding for an outside organization is going to be the kind of thing that would get your account deleted, at the very least.

        • BradB

          Hi Tom…. this is a very simple fix…. I have suggested this many times…

          all we need to do is create two categories of groups…..

          Official ones…. that have been fully accepted & endorsed by OWS…

          and,

          Transitional ones….. those that are still being refined……

          then we can include all and any…w/o the need or worry to claim responsibility for them….

    • Steve Scher

      its is sad to note that once again i reached out yesterday…accepting statements that others here cannot, and attempted to find a good resoloution to this matter.
      Again I was banned from the group.
      So what is the point of my remaining civil when others have so obviosly been far from it.
      Why should I try YET again to assist this 99%D working group?

      ( I have a theory. There was a post I recieved yesterday indicating that there were ongoing efforts to deal with what was termed ” childish ” behavior. I replied I thought that impossible, and that the individual involved was to put it simply ” irrational”. I now have to bring back into play my most paranoid and far out their thinking, a scenario wherein one person and one person alone has the goal of using any action taken here to garner favorable attention by using any action to focus on OWS and then to characterize OWS as the bad guys. If in fact that is the game plan then the additional violation on the part of this one individual which would effect the group status further, this violation is tantamount to…well it reminds me of what is called “suicide by cop”
      The “perp” stands there, taunting..holding what appears to be a weapon, then makes that move..that violation..and boom….dead perp.
      Considering this exact scenario has been described here before, and yet it occurs again…..
      So WHO did remove me from the 99%D group as I slept last night?
      Thanks for allowing me to have a place to be civil and seek harmony.
      -Steve Scher
      http://www.BaysideFriend.com
      718 347 4818
      BaysideFriend@yahoo.com ( thanks for all your email….i’ve found it quite interesting…)

      • Michael Andrew Contreras

        I was banned as well for expressing concerns about the direction of the 99D group, and engaging in a public dialogue. So much power in a person to remove me from the group. Kudos to NYCGA for not banning anyone from an open dialogue.

          • Michael Andrew Contreras

            I have no access to 99 d Facebook page. I herd about it through this web site. I thought that they mud be credible since OWS gave them a platform to grow. I was encouraged to give financially ire toy to their account. I am glad that OWS is no longer associating themselves to the “99 d” organization. Associating to the 99 d, may put a stain to OWS. I knw this won’t happen. The 99 d had profited of OWS and seems unthankful.

      • liza

        i was banned the first day from their email list and wg for questioning Pollock’s account of being disenfranchised by GA. i was there when he brought the proposal for this group and it just wasnt passed. he was asked to bring it back and he didn’t. why?

        * Pollock doesnt want accountability from GA,

        * he doesnt want GA to control accounting and

        * he doesnt want to follow the principles of solidarity.

        whomever says 99D wants to do all these things isnt saying the truth. go their google group and find all the emails i posted before i was banned. his responses are illuminating.

        • Dan Chilton

          @ liza -”i was there when he brought the proposal for this group and it just wasnt passed”
          Was there a vote ? and the proposal was rejected?

    • edward

      Beyond the bigger issues about transparency, organizational form, decision-making process, etc., is a simle matter: why should OWS succumb to 99D? Why can’t they operate on their own? Why do they insist on siphoning OWS? In other words, wouldn’t it be strange if the Sierra Club wanted Greenpeace to turn its monies, people, and energy to Sierra Club? And on Sierra Club’s webspace? Both groups have similar ends, but fundamentally different means… Best of luck to 99D, but leave OWS alone already.

    • liza

      with all due respect, this is horseshit. these people DO NOT represent OWS and their leader has repeatedly stated he isnt interested in abiding by either consensus democracy or the principles of solidarity.

      he can do whatever he wants but as far as using OWS to pay him & his pet project? fuck him.

    • Robert Gabrielsky

      There is some debate as to whether the 99D and OWS share common goals and common asperations. Some people try to play both sides of this issue sometimes claiming we have common goals and asperations and sometimes not, depending on the context.

      I personally don’t think that the 99D and OWS have common goals, much less common tactics and strategies. The 99D group seeks to reform the political process and perhaps the Constitution though essentially legal means. In contrast, OWS seeks a fundamental transformation of the entire international social system and the displacement of existing institutions that govern over us with entirely new types of institutions through which the people can govern themselves directly, not through “representation.” Further, the tactics and strategies of OWS are not based on spurious appeals to Congress, but rather on militant, nonviolent direct action and civil disobedience.

      That said, I personal believe that there are a very few possible points of contact between the 99D and OWS. I suspect that if the 99D would dispense with everything else and just put forward a resolution calling for a national GA with no conditions regarding how it was to be organized and who could legitimately attend as a voting participant, there would probably be a lot of room for serious discussion.

  46. Michael Glass

    Guys, from what I can see the 99% Declaration’s stated goals are in accord with a lot of what I’ve heard expressed at my local Occupies, and they’re trying to be fully transparent and follow the working group guidelines. While they may be running under a voting-delgate system, this might work to this movements advantage due to having a base of people who are willing to “occupy” the house of representatives if the American government doesn’t take steps to address our concerns. I think that eventually we need to do away with the representative governmental system in favor of a more directly democratic one, but it’s a great middle step to infiltrating the current system. Homies, please, let’s work together on this one instead of breaking into competing groups, worrying about the methods instead of the ends.

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      A top-down structure never works in this time. We are a body that grows by cell, organ then system.

      • batman

        exactly. they are a top down system trying to work with the corrupt system their board members have been profiting from. we are a bottom up organization seeking to dismantle the current machine. where is the overlap?

        • Paula Smith

          We work from both ends and meet in the middle. We both make progress toward our shared goals.

          From Michael Glass, “I think that eventually we need to do away with the representative governmental system in favor of a more directly democratic one, but it’s a great middle step to infiltrating the current system.”

          We need change NOW, but that doesn’t mean the change we seek through the Declaration is the end of the line. It’s just another stop on the road to true liberty for the entire planet, but it gets us closer to the final station faster than the other routes currently being traveled.

          • Michael Andrew Contreras

            Also, the top structure never works because those who want to be at the top probably won’t come off the tiger they are riding on. I placed a rference from JFK inaugural address.

    • john pianka

      this could be a bottom up structure if there was a GA in every congressional district that came to consensus on 2 delegates from every GA to represent their local greivences consensed by said GA that sounds like the most direct democracy i have ever seen in this country so why not hop on and get your people to shape this document how you want it shaped as an OCCUPY MOVEMENT you have the power to write this document. You are the mothership that every occupy movement in america looks up to for leadership and guidance. Lead the country in a direct democracy consensed upon document by setting the example and putting two of your top consensed on people to make sure NYCGA has a voice on this document. It would be a shame to leave out your grievences. You can make direct democracy happen right here and right now without getting arrested or hit in the head with a tear gas canister. peace

      • Steve Scher

        I know John you mean well.
        No one looked to get arrested on the brooklyn bridge as the followed their police escort not hearing an announcement over the noise of the traffic and too far away to hear anything.
        No one stood as they exercised the freedom to assemble, to speak, to redress their government for grievances in order to be assaulted by tear gas canisters striking them in the head.
        When you write as you do about making direct democracy happen Ina manner avoiding these dangers I do not believe you fully understand the implication of what you write.
        I cannot believe you suggest not exercising fundemental rights.
        Use it, or lose it.

        Congressional districts are convenient for establishing geographical territory. Congressional districts are artificial man constructs ( and here gender specific applies) which are designed to effect the elections using highly varied shapes.
        I still find it odd whenever reminded of CDs which for example county lines.
        A CD with one part in Brooklyn, and another in Queens for example is asked to provide two delegates. Who gets the male, brooklyn or queens?

        Finally we have the cart, and then the horse.
        If ows ny is the horse pulling the message, and the 99%declaration is the cart being pulled, why would the cart ask it take the lead and ask for ows general assembles around the country to submit a list.
        Perhaps the ga in each ows has already been working not only on its list of demands, but how to present them.
        Perhaps each will chose a different way.

        To even suggest that this or any ga should interrupt what they are working on to accept 99%D as a National Clearing House,to accept a time table not of their choosing such as in the July date, seems highly charged with built in conflicts.

    • liza

      they can set whatever they want.

      1. they dont want to be accountable to ga
      2. they despise consensus democracy
      3. they’re using OWS NYC to raise money while
      not showing a penny to Accounting
      4. they’re setting up a third party with candidate
      endorsements by the summer UNDER THE GUISE
      OF OWS ENDORSEMENTS.

      seriously, this breaks so many IRS/FEC rules, i can’t even.

  47. Steve Scher

    Earlier one of the participants made a remark that one could say was in poor taste, but that would be to easily construed as humor.
    Suffice it to say that I am referring to the highly descriptive phrase denoting male genitalia emitting a coco based product.

    I’d like to suggest that going forward we might better be served limiting our imaginations to less personal use, and apply our creativity here.

    One use of creativity might be to alter the levels of anger.
    This is very frustrating for all.

    On a personal note I am curious, the members member based exudeingly descriptive reference, was that based on personal experience?

    Just asking.

    And to all a good night.

    • batman

      lol yeah poor taste is my forte at times. i was more trying to comment on his laundry list of ‘look how special i am, so that means that my manipulations must work’

      sorry about putting the visual in anyones head lol

  48. BradB

    let’s STOP this infighting… is will destroy us faster than the 1% can….

    to “everyone” here… who has been.. so concerned about who dots the I’s and crosses the t’s …. and have forgotten our mission… here’s a reminder…

    ______________________________________________________________
    Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

    As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that “ALL PEOPLE” who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that “WE ARE YOUR ALLIES”.

    “AS ONE PEOPLE”, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race “REQUIRES THE COOPERATION OF IT’S MEMBERS”; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

    **********
    **********
    **********

    We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

    >>>>>>>>>>”READ THIS”>>>>>>>>>>
    Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to “EVERYONE”.

    >>>>>>>>>>”READ THIS”>>>>>>>>>>
    To “ALL COMMUNITIES” that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

    Join us and make your voices heard!

    • Patricia L

      This is how I read it too. :) The amount of time and energy involved in trying to discredit this group seems misdirected and really counter-productive. Looking at the nycga.net homepage might give someone the impression that this is all we talk about…

        • Steve Scher

          however its not simply about trying to discredit any group, as it appears to you, but rather what is done in that groups name, and how it effects that group.

      • liza

        sorry, they fuck up, it’s OWS’ ass in the IRS & FEC because of them. stop this solidarity nonsense with every opportunist who’s using this to prop themselves while discrediting the movement.

    • Steve Scher

      On a seperate note: I note that having rejoined yesterday, today the ”Join Group ” button was displayed on my 99%D working group webpage here in NYCga.net
      That indicates I was banned from the group a 14th time (?) as I slept.
      Why was this done, again…and who did it please.
      You ask for infighting to stop.
      I agree…
      I’ve been clawed yet again…..
      who is going to hang the bell on the cat?
      -Steve Scher
      http://www.BaysideFriend.com
      718-347-4818
      BaysideFriend@yahoo.com
      (keep those cards and letters coming…they mean so much to me…thank you….. :D )

      • MzCitzen2

        Steve! Thanks so much for resurrecting that great old 60s anti-war song, “Universal Soldier” at your Bayside Friend site, as performed by Buffy Sainte-Marie.

        IMHO a big part of how the MSM suppresses and controls the population is by offering only pre-taped “radio shows” – the content of which is carefully controlled. No “DJs” needed, and thus, no independent artists’ voices are aired, that might object to the corporate agendas of war and servitude!

        Those of us who recall the 60s, know that popular MUSIC fueled the revolution against the Viet Nam war! Who of our generation can forget Jimmy Hendrick’s “War”? Or the lyrics of Country Joe and the Fish, who asked, ” For it’s one, two, three, what are we fightin’ for? Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam.” When these tunes were heard on our radios multiple times per day, the electorate started asking pertinent questions.

        We now have the power to bypass this corporate stranglehold on the public discussion. I encourage any of you who have the tools to repost, or create, music that promotes the ideas embraced by the 99% movement, to do so. Thanks again Bayside Friend!

  49. the99declaration

    Only half of Occupy Philly has rejected the 99% plan; the other half is working with us closely to find housing for the delegates in July and acting as liaison with the City; working on the election system. These five kooks wouldn’t know the truth if it ran them over in a bus. I think there some mental/emotional issues at play hear

    • BradB

      quote…”…These five kooks wouldn’t know the truth if it ran them over in a bus. I think there some mental/emotional issues at play hear…”

      hehehe ;) Michael… shouldn’t that be “SIX” kooks….. I think YOU contribute to the disruption here as much as your opposition no ? ;) ALL SAID WITH RESPECT, LOVE & AFFECTION ;)

      • Steve Scher

        hmmmmm….in the same vein…..you realize i was voicing support of your post yesterday….
        am i one of the kooks?
        and frankly you confuse me…..
        i thought i might be the, or one of the idiots with half a brain you spoke of……
        :D
        **********************************************************************************************
        Seriously, I truly do appreciate your efforts to bring civility here.
        and your use of humor…..
        Many Thanks
        -Steve Scher
        http://www.BaysideFriend.com
        718 347 4818
        BaysideFriend@yahoo.com

        • BradB

          hehe Steve… we’re all kooks here…. I was just reminding Michael of that….

          but why we’re talking … Steve, ;) … if you keep getting banned from a group page… maybe you are saying things that the group admin’s don’t want to hear over and over again ???? ..

          when I get banned.. I may challenge once… but then II simply leave … I don’t want to waste any further time with groups of people who will ban their own members….

          ironic huh ? …. a group fighting to not be banned … banning others… hehe

          peace ;)

          • Steve Scher

            you’re not very persistant.
            the way i figure it is if one person seems to be the single person taking these actions that violate either spirit or letter of the laws around here…..if i leave that one person will then continue to do it over and over to others.
            from what i read from the discussions in forums before that same one person deleted them, i was most not certainly the first to be denied basic due process.
            You warn the person on the first offence, you state what rule or guideline is being violated and allow the offender to correct their violation.
            Thats not written anywhere YET, but it does seem common sense to me.

            Instead you find your voice stifled.
            The group hidden so no one can join unless invited
            and so on……

            and the worst part imho is that one person successfully, knowingly and will fully puts the entire group at risk of banning…each and every time that one single person acts in this manner, and in doing so draws our limited time and energy to clean up another mess.

            Childish?
            perhaps it app[ears so…..
            Irrational?
            I hope so…
            because if its rational.
            Planned.
            Motivated by a hidden agenda….
            :(

          • Steve Scher

            i went out shopping with my wife for a few hours,
            as of this moment i have asgain been removed from 99%D working group.
            i wish to know who removed me.
            thank you
            steve scher 1/4/2012
            5:11pm

    • liberty

      “half of Occupy Philly has rejected the 99% plan”
      Occupy Philly as in ‘RS’ or are you referring to OPGA … Where I observed that most folks had reservations, mainly due to ignorance of the agenda/affiliation with OWS and why SSN’s where required for place holders in July’s planned assembly. As an individual, I walked away from that OPGA feeling there was a lack of transparency with what 99org was all about – especially its ‘board’..but remaining open since there didn’t seem to be a whole lot of info available to us and thus I think a lot of people felt very unsure. We were however assured that it came out of OWS as a working group, so, fear not.. It just didn’t really make sense. So anyway, I guess I’m not sure where you’re getting ‘half’ of ‘Occupy Philly’ from.

    • David Mauriello

      Michael, there is no need for name calling here. Just call a spade a spade. We continue to pursue our vision of change in parallel with others who believe in a different method. Onward!

  50. Dan Chilton

    Bear with me:
    If the GA asked me to get pizza, and as driver I said to a helper “get in” (the car) ,
    You could say – “He doesn’t use a consensus model, and where’s the ccountability? ”
    He doesn’t represent the OWS!
    All true, but does it matter?

    IF 99D was intended do something, like “List the grievances of the 99%”
    Then reaching out to the 99% and not specifically members of a GA, would be expected.
    That said, I don’t know where they got the idea of a political party. Thats certainly a conversation to have.
    And its unfortunate that one of the main people in 99D is sour and rude.
    But I wonder -is there’s an awareness that OWS doesn’t have guidelines for pairing up with partners, affiliated or allied groups?
    Must all partners of OWS be exact CLONES of OWS?
    Where are the guidelines for this kind of relationship?
    I’m thinking OWS should have clear guidelines before 99D is smacked down for violating them.
    AND 99D needs a new front man and a real attitude change, and probably re-think and re-frame its mission.
    This may turn out to be an important test case, and 99D is in danger of poisioning its own cause and that of other affiliations with OWS.

    Both sides need to step up. IMO.

  51. batman

    not clones, but some similar ideas would be nice. we need to understand the vast difference between representational and direct democracy. we need to understand that one group wants to work in the corrupt system, one wants to overthrow it. we need to be sure that any who claim to ‘fly our flag’ are not going to bite us in the ass. that is why Occupy Philly and others conducted such exhaustive investigation into the 99D, and why after they did they disavowed them.

    • Kate McIntyre

      lots of folks in Occupy Columbus are wanting to work with the system, too. the tent on site is paid for by permit, as well…

    • Dan Chilton

      I haven’t seen anything from a GA that says OWS seeks to overthrow the government.
      OWS seeks a redress of grievances.
      That is INCOMPATIBLE with overthrowing the government.
      So, should we disavow you?
      ;)

        • Dan Chilton

          I have heard lots of talk…
          Any resolutions recorded and posted?
          Link please …

      • Steve Scher

        @Dan Would you agree one way to overthrow a government is through the ballot box?

        • Dan Chilton

          No. If elected official undertake to change the government that is an evolution or transformation.
          I think of a ‘revolution’ as an imposition of a new order and removal of the old, often by force and violence.
          NAZI germany was not created by revolution, but by legal transformative steps.
          The American Revolution replaced British rule entirely, not by their consent.
          The change of America from a representitive democracy to one coopted by corporations was transformative, not revolutionary.
          I’d be happy if the government consented to redress all our grievances about:
          Banking & debt, Corporate law, election law, Tax law, social justice healthcare etc.
          Transforming the existing government is preferable to replacing it entirely.
          Its probably the best first step.
          If the government can not change itself, then other more drastic tactics my become necessary.

          I regard this movement in time, this zeitgeist, as a groundswell of a new realization that the system needs more than fine tuning, and has become fundementally imbalanced.
          Others haven’t quite come to that realization yet. They, think its the Democrats, Obama, the republicans… They don’t quite see the root cause isn’t so much the usual suspects of players working in the system, but those with their hands to -pull the player’s strings and -levers OF the system.
          I seek transformative change of the system not a revolution to replace it.
          I happen to think that it can be fixed.
          I havent given up on that hope.

          • Steve Scher

            The Velvet Revolution (Czech: sametová revoluce) or Gentle Revolution (Slovak: nežná revolúcia) was a non-violent revolution in Czechoslovakia that took place from November 17 to December 29, 1989. Dominated by student and other popular demonstrations against the one-party government of the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia, it saw to the collapse of the party’s control of the country, and the subsequent conversion from Czech Stalinism to capitalism.[1]

            On November 17, 1989, a Friday, riot police suppressed a peaceful student demonstration in Prague. That event sparked a series of popular demonstrations from November 19 to late December. By November 20 the number of peaceful protesters assembled in Prague had swollen from 200,000 the previous day to an estimated 500,000. A two-hour general strike, involving all citizens of Czechoslovakia, was held on November 27.

            With the collapse of other Warsaw Pact governments and increasing street protests, the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia announced on November 28 that it would relinquish power and dismantle the single-party state. Barbed wire and other obstructions were removed from the border with West Germany and Austria in early December. On December 10, President Gustáv Husák appointed the first largely non-communist government in Czechoslovakia since 1948, and resigned. Alexander Dubček was elected speaker of the federal parliament on December 28 and Václav Havel the President of Czechoslovakia on December 29, 1989.

            In June 1990, Czechoslovakia held its first democratic elections since 1946.

            The term Velvet Revolution was coined by Rita Klímová, the dissidents’ English translator[2] who later became the new non-Communist regime’s ambassador to the United States.[3] The term was used internationally to describe the revolution, although the Czech side also used the term internally. After the dissolution of Czechoslovakia in 1993, Slovakia used the term Gentle Revolution, the term that Slovaks used for the revolution from the beginning. The Czech Republic continues to refer to the event as the Velvet Revolution.

        • David Mauriello

          Absolutely the most feasible way to do it in the most immediate future.

          • Dan Chilton

            @Steve A revolution is a discontinuity in government. A replacement of one government by another.
            Passing laws to enact sweeping reform is fundamentally different.

            I’m not going to advocate revolution unless grevious injustice is in place, and its clear that reform can not be enacted to correct it.

  52. stephan geras

    Noam Chomsky on the question of eliminating the state which colludes with and is corrupted by corporate power as opposed to strengthening the state as a tool to check corporate power: “The strategy of eliminating the state is on the level of ‘let’s have peace and justice’. If there was a rich, powerful network of cooperatives, community organizations, worker controlled industry extending over the whole world, then you could talk about eliminating the state. We have a number of systems of power, closely interlinked. One of them’s corporate power, business power. That’s by far the most dangerous since it’s unaccountable private tyrannies. Another is state power which is overwhelmingly influenced by concentrated private power. So what do we do about it? If you’re interested in the long term project of dissolving corporate power, you should be out there organizing workers to organize themselves on their concerns. A short term answer would be to take over the workplace, run the factories. Workers don’t need state support for that because it’s the only institution that exists and the only one that people can influence. You can’t influence a private tyranny. You can influence the government. It would take o lot of popular support but nowhere as much as bailing out Goldman Sachs. The workforce and the community can decide to do that! (exclamation mark is mine). ….these are real organizing strategies that combine short-term efforts, that confront real problems that people face in their everyday lives, with long-term objectives like creating part of the basis for a society based on free association and solidarity and popular control. Advocacy requires more than just proposal. It means setting up goals (proposal) and also sketching a path from here to there (advocacy), which invariably requires small steps. It requires ideas about how to build the institutions of the future within the existing society, but also to modify the existing society.

  53. batman

    plain and simple, they are one group with their own goals. we are another. this site, this forum, is essentially the voices of a leader-full organization, which means that statments, positions and the like will be taken as the ‘word’ from OWS. we know better, but facts are facts. which means any inference that can be taken, and any group that appears to be tied to ours by being allowed to pretend they are for all intents, will cause us to be painted with their brush. when the MSM pulls a quote from someone like pollock from a forum here, and attributes it to ‘the NYCGA’ we will lose all cred. when someone in the MSM seeks to slam us, all they need do is say ‘OWS and 99D are partnered together’ they will be able to say that based on us allowing a fake working group of theirs to exist on our space. when they investigate and find the board of the 99d has a white collar crime lawyer who ran for office and failed, and a VP from Goldman Sachs, they will use that to show how we are coopted. it wont be true. but this is a battle for hearts and minds of a mostly under educated public. spin is our enemy. and when they can back their spin with words from our own site, well hopefully as intelligent people you can see the problem. what next, allowing an aryan nation working group? there is no problem with people participating in both OWS and any other group, even a scam like 99D. as individuals. but to allow another entity ‘working group’ claims in the NYCGA, we give them our credibility, and we take on their baggage as well. its bad enough they use our words to sell their tea bagger ideas, must we give them a platform here as an organization? i say no, and agree with this proposal to follow the leads of Occupy Philly and countless others and kick them to the curb. wish them well on their merry way, but they have their thing and we have ours. individuals, as i said may overlap. but to allow organizational overlaps is a horrible precedent, in general, and in this specific case will bite us full on the ass when they are charged with tac fraud, or worse, which in my opinion and the opinion of tax lawyers at the IRS, will happen sooner rather than later. but even disregarding them as an entity, we shouldnt allow ANY outside organization space here. if they want to organize, let them do it on their dime, on their space. they are selling t shirts here ffs!!! what next, rocawear and google ads?

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      Totally agree. This 99 d is a cancer to us, an entity on their own. Sure, some people in there group may have had pure intentions, but not their leaders. The leaders whoever that may actually be. Assuming that the 99d board is only a puppet to their financiers. We have been way to generous in lending our credibility to their organization. We will prevail because OWS has the Zucotti spirit alive and well in us, the spirit that made us who we are today, others may want to imitate us, but we won’t be imitated. We won’t be hijacked. And we won’t back down from a fight.

      Peace and non-violence,
      Michael Andrew contreras

      • Dan Chilton

        Wow, while I share concerns that 99D might do something OWS generally objects to, the cancer imagery seems ugly and antithetical to the tolerance to diversity OWS generally has.
        OWS seems okay with socialists anarchists, communists libertarians and other individuals.

        The intolerance to a potentially ‘gray market’ OWS look-alike/rouge work-group is unsetteling to me.
        Personally I havent seen real harm done yet.
        Yes I see the potential harm and I see a really nasty sour player within 99D. What do you expect from lawyers?.
        Its best not to act just on fear.
        I’d like to see OWS figure out how to be tolerant of other groups and its own -offshoots and imitators and look-alikes and wanna-bes.
        I think its time to figure out a framework for that. One with clear guidelines that make sense to those inside OWS and the ‘others’ outside it.
        And I recommend not trying to OWN ideas, and assert copyrights, and get all corporate and posessive.

        Every time OWS inspires individuals to act on something OWS does or some message from within it, this counts as a success. IMO
        We need to make this work for groups as well.

        Imitation means OWS is growing in spirit. I think thats a good thing.
        Inspiring other groups is good too.
        -Impersonation-, on the otherhand, is dishonest and I am opposed to all forms of dishonesty.

    • vets74

      Please reconsider this “Leaderless” business.

      The original formulation is different: “We Are Our Own Leaders.”

      Everyone gets a decent chance to lead, if that’s what you want to do. everyone can propose to lead the group for a specific goal.

      Many leaders is quite different from no leaders.

      That’s also why this is never/no-way a clone of earlier “anarchist” commune theories.

      • Dallas

        I prefer “leaderful” to “leaderless”. The key point, whichever word you use, is that we should never make it possible to stop the whole body that is Occupy by removing the head.

    • liza

      +1 infinity

      i think it should be understood they can do whatever they want and godspeed. they just do not need to have any representation as a working group on this site.

      that’s all.

    • David Mauriello

      Batman, nothing you say could be further from the truth. Who are the people relating what were trying to do to the NCYGA? This direct action of choosing delegates to ratify a petition for the redress of grievances, will be a completely seperate entity from the NYCGA. Like a march or other direct action, this one has it’s own purpose.

  54. MzCitzen2

    OK, I just perused the 99D working group’s board, and visited, or tried to visit several of their website pages. It should be obvious that when a group puts its own fundraising link on the Home Page of a site that appears in their OWS “Working Group” thread, while using terms like “General Assembly” and, and offering a “Plan” page entitled “What’s Next for OWS?” that there is some intellectual pilferage going on. (Although to be truthful, that Plan page seems to have been removed.)

    Moreover, I am not enamoured of any group that attempts to deceive the public to believe that it is in any way “affiliated” with OWS, and which lays out a plan to offer its own “political candidates,” while OWS has no such agenda. Again, as others have so aptly observed, this opens the door to OWS being wrongly (and publicly) accused of any number of “agendas” that are not our own.

    It is my impression that the real working groups are taking time and great care to try to make any “declaration” or “recommendation” for reform as thoughtful, effective, and egalitarian as possible. There are already too many disparaging and/or untruthful rumors circulating about OWS in the mainstream press. Do we need to invite even more?

    Whomever has been allowed to erect this “working group” page can certainly be invited to particpate as anyone else here – but I am uncomfortable with the impression that they are allowed to give the impression that the views expressed in their own website, are our own.

    It is my impression that the real working groups are taking time and great care to try to make any “declaration” or “recommendation” for reform as thoughtful, effective, and egalitarian as possible. There are already too many disparaging and/or untruthful rumors circulating about OWS in the mainstream press. Do we need to invite even more?

    I happen to agree with others here who have pointed out that while 99D is allowed an “OWS Working Group” thread, OWS might be exposed to possible liability issues, regarding any mis-steps in their fundraising; over which OWS has absolutely no control. .

      • edward

        Exactly. They just did a radio show presenting themselves as the future of OWS. Seriously, this 99D thing is trying to hijack. For sure, they are stalking.

        • Michael Andrew Contreras

          We need to send a strong statement to the radio show and ask that our side be heard. We need to expose them. Clearly, they are interests are not the same as ours. We believe in transparency and honesty.

        • David Mauriello

          Hijack what? The idea that our government is corrupt is not OWS solely. You talk as if you are the true representative “Leader” of OWS. I know many involved at OWS who would classify your comments as suspect. Please continue to draw attention to yourself as a deliverer of the “true” message of change. While you continue to bash us, will will continue to push forward with the intent of exposing the corrupt system for which it is. Our objective is to publicly humiliate our government into action. Action which results in change for the American people, the 99% that have no say. You claim to represent them with you current rhetoric? I don’t think so.. Just my opinion.

    • Jondean

      “It should be obvious that when a group puts its own fundraising link on the Home Page of a site that appears in their OWS “Working Group” thread, while using terms like “General Assembly” and, and offering a “Plan” page entitled “What’s Next for OWS?” that there is some intellectual pilferage going on. (Although to be truthful, that Plan page seems to have been removed.) ” It has been removed, and we are hardly the first, the last, or the best to use these phrases. You cannot hold onto, or steal an idea, any more than you can evict an idea. Most importantly, since we are working in solidarity with OWS…we can hardly co-opt OWS. OWS cannot co-opt OWS.

      “Moreover, I am not enamoured of any group that attempts to deceive the public to believe that it is in any way “affiliated” with OWS, and which lays out a plan to offer its own “political candidates,” while OWS has no such agenda.” This is hardly true anymore. Maybe at the start, but certainly no longer. http://theoccupationparty.org/ which is another NYC GA working group entirely is also focused on the same goal. So is Occupy New Hampsire. Our process may be different, but our goals are totally in line with OWS.

      “I happen to agree with others here who have pointed out that while 99D is allowed an “OWS Working Group” thread, OWS might be exposed to possible liability issues, regarding any mis-steps in their fundraising; over which OWS has absolutely no control.” Our process is very careful and legal. Beyond that, why is the money of any concern…it was donated in good faith, and its use is very clearly documented. What possible liability would OWS have? Why would OWS seek to control it?

  55. MzCitzen2

    With apologies for the double paragraph. I have not been able to figure out if one can make edits here.

  56. Frances MA

    I just returned from the GA a little while ago. This proposal was on the agenda this evening, and yet no one showed up to present it. There are 298 comments on this page. That’s a whole lot of talk and no action. What is the point exactly of talking in circles on nycga.net? Want to get involved? Get on the ground. Propose your ideas. Be present. Stop fighting online and bickering meaninglessly. If you took even half of the energy that you have all invested into this pointless online debate and brought it into working group actions on the ground we could make miracles happen in this movement.

    • Dan Chilton

      Discussing, and even arguing is not fighting. Its not meaningless.
      I Cant easily get to GAs, so I’m using words.
      Like you are now.

      • Frances MA

        You are discussing a proposal that no one bothered to show up to propose! The debate is meaningless unless someone actually moves forward with the process. Otherwise it’s just talking. If that’s what you want, just to talk, then go for it. I just feel that 300 comments on a proposal that was seemingly abandoned is a waste of time and energy.

        • Michael Andrew Contreras

          Same here. I can’t easily get to GA’s. Working.

        • Dan Chilton

          Not supporting the proposal might be a good thing.
          Maybe the right proposal is something else.

          Its hard to say what words have an effect.
          And the thing about doing this on-line -
          No travel time in the freezing cold, and nobody is shouting.

    • Urbaned

      Do you mean that Brett, the original poster, did not show up? Now, I’m very confused.

      • Frances MA

        Brett is not the proposer. Brett posted the proposal because he works with facilitation. According to the proposals page the original proposer is Jack R. Abbot. And yes, he did not show up to the GA this evening to present the proposal. So all this talk about removing this group from the site is just that. Talk. Which is fine I suppose. But if people really feel so strongly about this issue, then they need to follow protocol and go before the GA.

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      Here is what I posted on their Facebook page, and 99 replied.

      Michael Contreras: Haven’t heard the show for the call in for the lawyer. Do you want to hear the other side of the story? I think it is important. Please read this links below to get an idea of what the other side of the story is. Thank you. Respectfully, Michael.http://www.nycga.net/2012/01/02/removal-of-99-declaration-from-nycga-net/comment-page-2/#comment-26902 We have people here ready to call in and give a reply.
      41 minutes ago · Like · 1

      Ninety-Nine Percent Declaration: that is NOT the other side of the story; that is how crazy people talk; no one showed to even introduce the proposal
      3 minutes ago · Like

        • Michael Andrew Contreras

          Nobody is hating. I don’t think the foundations for the 99d is built on solid rocks. I know that after the hype is over, then all will still be the same. Your character is truly expressed by your words you write, and a major part of the movement is love. Some call it occupy love or occupy peace. The movement is not about occupy power.

          • the99declaration

            Michael these are comments of exclusion not inclusion. We are just another WG. The difference is we have a very short window of opportunity so must take action now. The election of delegates is open to all and we want all the general assemblies to run delegates in each of the 435 districts. We take no position on what grievances or demands the delegates come up with. We are only a facilitation group that is providing the venue and online election run by an independent third party who will be audited after the results are in. Direct democracy cannot work under these circumstances because we need to draft a formal petition and serve it on the government before the next election in November. If this works, the courts will compel the three branches of the US government to not just address but redress the petition because the election will make the petition “sufficiently representative” of the US population. That is why we are using the very congressional districts used by the current corrupt corporate state except we will elect two representatives from each and include the non-voting delegations like DC. Nothing we are doing is inconsistent with #OWS and it is intended as a companion to and not instead of the #OWS movement. We are part of the 99% and want to elect representatives to attend a National General Assembly to speak for us. This is all due to #OWS and the 99% Movement and we do not forget that.

        • batman

          the only false posts are yours and your drones as you try to profit from and defraud the occupy movement.

          • Michael Andrew Contreras

            there is no short window of opportunity here. It is too haste to run in 2012 national election. Have you ever thought about the state elections first. Do you realize the people acted hastily when they began the Reform party. There is no much reforming going on with them. Have you ever organized something at the county level in politics or at the state level? Why would you want to do something at the national level? The 99d is following exactly in the footsteps. And the outcome of 99d is predictable easily. There is probably no leadership in the 99 d. I say this because it seems nobody really is inspired by it. All they are doing is just rushing along, in hopes to do something. How did the board form were the elected in that position by the 99 d or rather self- appointed. Your premise for doing this is that we have a short window of opportunity. Perhaps, you would do better to gather the 99 d and replace Mayor Bloomberg with a OWS candidate, then if you do this, people will take you serious, and see that it can be done. Then this would be an example for major cities to take back and occupy the mayors office with somebody from our own. If you do this, then I would probably support you guys, until then, the way this is being built is all wrong. I speak from experience of organizing and leading in my community. If you can grant me that.

        • Dan Chilton

          I’ve been trying very to advocate for finding an amicable way to resolve differences between OWS and 99D
          I think it would be in the best interest of 99D and OWS to work in accord.
          Terse little nasty remarks like that make it hard, and make me question the assumption of good will I have for 99D.
          If I may offer an opinion.
          While legal mind may see no problem with 99D’s behavior working within the extraordinarily loose framework of OWS, the legal mind’s seldom address the spirit of the rules.
          As of noweschewscews endorsements of outside groups, political parties and politicians.
          The plan ‘B’ of 99D to run candidates repellentent to many who are close to OWS and it may be a -very very- bad idea.
          99D should show signs of trying to bridge the gap.
          Both sides would lose if you fail to make amends.
          99D would lose everything.
          Not to diminish what you’ve done, there are lots of talented people who can put together a campaign like 99D.
          But you’ll never find other coat tails like OWS’s to ride on.
          With a single press release, 99D could be dispatched to the same corner of hell as the Tea Party.
          and Maybe a direct action at your doorstep.
          But thats just my opinion.
          Have a nice day. :)

          • Dan Chilton

            type – Where’s the edit feature?
            As of now, OWS eschews endorsements of outside groups…

  57. Steve Scher

    The 99%D is not yet a working group.

    It held a meeting in a cafeteria in upstate NY where Mr. Pollok met with the 7 to 8 students ( which he recommended take the deal/IMHO tainted pro bono to essentially plead guilty….on the brooklyn bridge…unable to hear the announcements following your police escort) .
    At that meeting Mr. Pollok wrote his first draft.
    At a GA he arrived with 400 copies of the document.
    There have been no meetings with the same students as a working group.
    The oneand only meeting ever scheduled, one week ago as of today produced one adult, and two 15 month old attendees.
    So yes, you are not just another working group as you state Mr. Pollok.
    You are NOT a working group.
    To state otherwise is a bold faced lie. An untruth. A falsehood.
    Further the difference is not a narrow window of opportunity, its that you simply are not a working group and what you describe as a narrow window of opportunity it is based and caused by the date you chose, personally, just as you chose the name for the event, personally.
    Since you claim you are a working group, and as an example, since you choose to disregard your own internal decision making mechanisms.
    For example as posted :
    *******************************************
    Steve Scher said on January 3, 2012

    Update: After the above post I made, I recieved the following via facebook.
    It corrects the issue of who deleted an ongoing vote.
    It confirms that the deletion occured. Unfortunetly it does not deal with:
    1) If there was a ongoing vote to choose the name for the July event, and that vote was interrupted, wherew was it resumed? From what I observe, it was not.
    2) If there was a vote being taken to choose the way to identity the event, why was Mr. Michael S. Pollok already using a name, repeatedly, which had not been chosen?

    Steve Scher

    Posted on 99%D Website: See there you go again…. ( directed to Michael S. Pollok Esq.) The vote on your own Facebook site as to what to call it got deleted…no name is finalized by your own people…but you’re calling it ” The National General Assembly”. What will you do if your own people choose a more appropriate name like ”The 99% Declaration Assembly ”… Over turn their vote….oh wait.l.thats right….that vote got deleted and Kat had to post a request for you to put it up again….from scratch of course….
    I suppose you consider the above spam, or a personal attack…
    Honest Mr Pollok, it’s just business. If you delete your own forums, destroy any possibility of your own people, particularly the newer ones from reading your groups history…it’s discussion…it’s votes or rather lack if votes.
    You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Shame on you.
    You bring dishonor to your profession, already too often maligned, and upon the good people who put their trust in you.

    Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · Sunday at 4:42pm

    Dan Long and Love Joy like this..

    Nanette J Wheeler-Carter Actually Steve, It was my posting and I deleted it – not Michael – just to clarify… So if you want to be upset at someone I’m the person to blame this poll on..
    9 hours ago · Like.

    Kat Brag If the 99% Declaration fails, the 1% wins! Way to go Steve!
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher sigh….didn’t know i had all that power
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher seriously i know your sincere and bear in mind i liked the concept…..
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher but face it….you’ve been done an injustice
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher and it was avoidable had he delegated
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher its not just that he’s not a people person
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Steve Scher i wish you all well
    7 hours ago · Like.

    Kat Brag you have over 4,000 friends; that is something. Gotta go plan an event in Philadelphia on July 4th. peace, out
    7 hours ago · Like
    **************************************************************
    Your people Mr. Pollok.
    Their words.

    So Mr. Mr. Pollok, that vote started was deleted and never resumed, yet you personally chose the name, as you ” run” this entire endeavor.
    The people you associate with don’t seem to mind.
    They appear very accepting as to your mode of leadership
    HOWEVER IT IS AT VARIANCE WITH AND HAS NO CONSISTANCY WITH THE OWS WALL STREET MOVEMENT.
    THE STATEMENTS IN YOUR POST DATED JANUARY 6, 2012 ARE INACCURATE.
    Finally you SPAM numerous groups today with an appeal, setting up a forum topic in each group.
    After reading your post, I responded as follows:
    **********************************************************
    I have a concern regarding the event being organized by the 99%D working group In July.
    In order to participate a delegate must have the means to travel to Phila PA on their own.
    I question what portion of the 99% in this economy would have the means to do so.
    For example:One Way:
    Nonstop
    Delta 5h 40m from $550 United 5h 40m from $550 American 5h 35m from $576 Virgin America 5h 30m from $576 Continental 5h 25m from $744 JetBlue 5h 30m unknown price
    All flights
    Frontier 6h 50m+ from $451 US Airways 7h 15m+ from $479 Other airlines 6h 25m+ from $486
    For example:
    One Way:
    Nonstop
    Delta 5h 40m from $550 United 5h 40m from $550 American 5h 35m from $576 Virgin America 5h 30m from $576 Continental 5h 25m from $744 JetBlue 5h 30m unknown price
    All flights
    Frontier 6h 50m+ from $451 US Airways 7h 15m+ from $479 Other airlines 6h 25m+ from $486
    **************************************************************************************
    Not only have you chosen to dishonor what you say you will not forget, you continue to engage in misdirection and faslehoods.

    I once agreed with one of your supporters, that explained to me they were trying to reign you in when you act ” childish”.
    I myself previously concluded you were irrational.

    I was wrong.
    You are quite rational, calculating and manipulative, and to qoute your own words nothing will “phase you.

  58. Brit Webwell

    Please be wary of a group calling itself the 99% Declaration. My first web meeting with Michael Pollack, author of 99% declaration, was rather discomforting. I am a former member of Steering Committee for 99% Declaration workgoup and agree with removal of presence on NYCGA.net.

    • batman

      preach on. they are thieves and agent provocateurs, trying to steal money from the naive and subvert our movement. they have no business having their fake working group even mentioned here, between this proposal and operation: clean sweep though, anon should have mr pollok and his swine well in hand sooner rather than later

    • Michael Andrew Contreras

      Story to hear about you first experience with him. And just think he is the face of the cult group 99 d. I use cult in the sense that they broke off from us, and started their own thing, with no accountability. Right, is this the definition of a cult. I can stop using the word cult is some one explains to me why this should not be called a cult group. In the 99 d are devotees to that doctrine, real good hearted people, that may have a rude awakening if they start questioning.

  59. Steve Scher

    3AM Update:
    News about the 99%Declaration Working Group which normally would only be posted there were instead posted to the general website due to issues with posts made on that groups webpages having been deleted. My apologies. Once that issue is resolved posting here will be unnecessary.
    ********************************************************************
    The 99%Declaration non profit is converting to:501(c)(3) Organization: To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.
    Currently it is 501(c)(4). According to the Internal Revenue Service, to be tax-exempt as a 501(c)(4) organization, a nonprofit must not be organized for profit and must be operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare. This means that the organization must operate primarily to further, in some way, the common good and general welfare of the people of the community (such as by bringing about civic betterment and social improvements).
    A 501(c)(4) social welfare organization may further its social welfare purposes through lobbying as its primary activity without jeopardizing its exempt status. However, it is not able to receive tax-deductible donations.
    ********************************************************
    A report from one of the four adult attendees at Fridays Working Groupo meeting of the 99%Declaration stated Mr. Pollok was a no show.
    This would seem to be at varience with Mr. Polloks post of:”Five big occupiers and two little occupiers attended our weekly working group meeting at Georges Diner today. Minutes will follow shortly.”

    This is the first and only such meeting.

    Posts made earlier today have also been deleted, for the fourth time including posts from Robert Dinsmore
    and yours truly, Steve Scher.
    Unofficial minutes as supplied by one of the four adult attendees include:
    Mr Pollack may not use his admin login to make personal remarks. He is free to use his own login ID as he wishes.
    99D will rewrite its charter as follows and vote on it at the next meeting at 60 Wall St-
    99D will run delegate elections from each congressional district for the purpose of gathering a list of grievances for redress by our government, and then disband.
    99D will publicize this meeting.

  60. laguy

    What exactly is the status of the 99D WG now? I think the removal proposal was withdrawn, because the person who made that proposal never showed up in GA meeting on 1/5/2012.

    Steve Scher, @baysidefriend: from your post above it looks like 99D group is changing some of their goals, like not getting involved in electoral politics in 2012 or later elections, but it is still going to elect delegates from each congressional districts and essentially this means that these delegates will try to present themselves as the elected spokes person of the occupy movement. If occupy is a leaderless movement, then electing a leader is a violation of this concept. It would be good to not have them kicked out, as some people strongly feel about inclusive nature of the occupy movement, but we need to draw a line some place. Because of the controversies this group has generated so far, I still think it would be best to remove the WG status of this group and down grade it to a group that wants to associate itself with occupy, but has not yet met the requirements. Now if the Tea Party, Minutemen or KKK came along, we certainly would not make them a part of occupy and give them WG status, the difference with 99D is not of that magnitude, but there are enough differences to remove it from NYC GA, in my opinion.

  61. Steve Scher

    i have concerns which i have been blocked from addressing.
    apparently i have been removed from the group, without notification, found out by accident earlier.
    i have been cautioned not to engage mr pollok directly or face negative consequences.

    one thing i read was from one of the lawyers on the board who stated that while there was no plan now to form a political party, it could still come back into play.

    noted the following post, and found it representitive of one of the concerns expressed by so many in ows:
    “Question:
    Is Outreach involved as to how Working Groups respond to inquiries from outside NYC OWS?
    For example:

    Malcolm R Migacz posted an update 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    @peedropaula – Hello Paula , Need help with a statement , you seem well connected to OWS . Can you direct me to those who can help us in Occupy San Diego given the following : Occupiers Plans To “Re-Occupy” Freedom Plaza Starting Saturday December 17th

    First, a group of the occupiers are planning to re-occupy “Freedom Plaza” – the name given to the Civic Center Plaza by demonstrators – on Saturday, December 17th. They believe they have a right to sleep in public space, and declare:

    “Therefore we’re lawfully re-occupying Freedom Plaza.”

    A Press Conference has been called for December 17th at 11 am at the Plaza in downtown San Diego. They have made this statement in support of their position:

    We believe under the Illegal Lodging, 647(e) agreement filed 2/8/2011, 04 CV -2314 BEN, Exhibit “A” as well as “Training Bulletin SDPD, page 5 section II; 1., in conjunction with the federal court order giving persons the right to sleep in public space when no shelter beds are available (and it is rare to find such beds available), we have legal standing for our protest to remain in the plaza 24 hours a day and 7 days per week. Therefore we’re lawfully re-occupying Freedom Plaza.

    I have posted this in legal group. in need of legal rep. at OWS to review statement for legality.

    Comment 1FavoriteTwinkleReport user

    Paula Smith replied 2 weeks, 6 days ago

    I’m sorry Malcolm, but I’m really not connected with OWS, nor do I believe it is right to occupy public spaces 24/7/365 even if it is legal because such occupation interferes with the right of the rest of the citizenry to enjoy those spaces.

    Reply
    :”

    In any case, the working group of the 99%D is meeting tommorrow, friday at 3pm at 60 wall street.

    I for one would object to they being ” kicked out”, and not based on the adage keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

    I liked the idea of a 99%D.
    I do not approve of the facade being maintained at any expense, including censorship and banning of a democratic group.
    The best example I found was the vote to choose the name for the July event, with 14 votes for ” The 99% Declaration National Assembly , and no other votes cast yet, when the poll was deleted.

    What disturbed me the most about that was not the actual deletion.
    What disturbed me the most was that Mr. Pollok was already using the name he obviously favored, and that the vote was never resumed.

    And of course by posting anything mentioning Mr. Pollok I run the risk of ” negative consequenes”.

    I expect that there may be some discussion at the meeting of the 99%D Working Group at 60 Wall street when it is held tommorrow at 3pm.

  62. Steve Scher

    i hate typos, tried to edit, delete….
    sigh….corrected version as follows:
    Steve Scher actually said on January 12, 2012″

    i have concerns which i have been blocked from addressing.
    apparently i have been removed from the group, without notification, found out by accident earlier.
    i have been cautioned not to engage mr pollok directly or face negative consequences.

    one thing i read was from one of the lawyers on the board who stated that while there was no plan now to form a political party, it could still come back into play.

    noted the following post, and found it representitive of one of the concerns expressed by so many in ows:

    From the 99%D WG -
    Malcolm R Migacz posted an update 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    @peedropaula – Hello Paula , Need help with a statement , you seem well connected to OWS . Can you direct me to those who can help us in Occupy San Diego given the following : Occupiers Plans To “Re-Occupy” Freedom Plaza Starting Saturday December 17th

    First, a group of the occupiers are planning to re-occupy “Freedom Plaza” – the name given to the Civic Center Plaza by demonstrators – on Saturday, December 17th. They believe they have a right to sleep in public space, and declare:

    “Therefore we’re lawfully re-occupying Freedom Plaza.”

    A Press Conference has been called for December 17th at 11 am at the Plaza in downtown San Diego. They have made this statement in support of their position:

    We believe under the Illegal Lodging, 647(e) agreement filed 2/8/2011, 04 CV -2314 BEN, Exhibit “A” as well as “Training Bulletin SDPD, page 5 section II; 1., in conjunction with the federal court order giving persons the right to sleep in public space when no shelter beds are available (and it is rare to find such beds available), we have legal standing for our protest to remain in the plaza 24 hours a day and 7 days per week. Therefore we’re lawfully re-occupying Freedom Plaza.

    I have posted this in legal group. in need of legal rep. at OWS to review statement for legality.

    Comment 1FavoriteTwinkleReport user

    Paula Smith replied 2 weeks, 6 days ago

    I’m sorry Malcolm, but I’m really not connected with OWS, nor do I believe it is right to occupy public spaces 24/7/365 even if it is legal because such occupation interferes with the right of the rest of the citizenry to enjoy those spaces.

    Reply
    :”
    I would add that the admin of the 99%D SWG to whom this inquirey was made is in fact a very nice person.
    She’s gone out of her way to remain civil, and did not hesitiate calling out those who made unfair and disparaging remarks directed against me in a personal attack.

    And of course she is entitiled to her own views, and the right to express them.
    I myself have posted concerns such as the barrade mountain or the duarte action.

    But when an admin of a 99%D WG states she is not a part of ows, and is in the ows working group, responding to public inquires as above…..

    i have concerns.

    In any case, the working group of the 99%D is meeting tommorrow, friday at 3pm at 60 wall street.

    I for one would object to they being ” kicked out”, and not based on the adage keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

    I liked the idea of a 99%D.
    I do not approve of the facade being maintained at any expense, including use of censorship and banning in a supposedly democratic group.

    The best example I found of issues with democratic process was the vote to choose the name for the July event, with 14 votes for ” The 99% Declaration National Assembly , and no other votes cast yet, when the poll was deleted.

    What disturbed me the most about that was not the actual deletion.
    What disturbed me the most was that Mr. Pollok was already using the name he obviously favored, and that the vote was never resumed.

    And of course by posting anything mentioning Mr. Pollok I run the risk of ” negative consequenes”.

    I expect that there may be some discussion at the meeting of the 99%D Working Group at 60 Wall street when it is held tommorrow at 3pm.