Proposal for Saturday 12/24 General Assembly: To Remove the 99% Declaration from NYCGA.net

Posted by & filed under Assemblies, Past Proposals.

This proposal is to remove the 99 declaration group presence on NYCGA.net and to announce publicly that the 99% Declaration does not represent OWS.

Using the symbols and language of the Occupy Movement, an autonomous group calling itself the 99% Declaration has, for months, been soliciting funds from unsuspecting people desperate for the change the occupy movement strives to make possible. Recently they have ramped up their media campaign by airing commercials on national television. The 99% declaration has no accountability or transparency and has not reached consensus in any meaningful way on any of its pronouncements. It does, however, currently have a presence on the NYCGA website as a working group. It has also solicited funds presenting its own initiatives as though they were sanctioned by OWS.

The association with OWS lends credibility to the 99% declaration and increases its visibility, which allows the group to reach more potential donors and fool them into giving to a campaign that operates non-democratically. This fractures support for the movement and exploits those wanting to support the kind of change they see manifest in OWS.

We invite the 99% declaration affinity group to come into compliance with the GA ratified guidelines defining working groups passed 12/20/11. Until this time, we ask that NYCGA take down the 99% declaration from the website, lest the Occupy Movement be tainted by the agenda of the 99% Declaration, which is currently hidden.

113 Responses to “Proposal for Saturday 12/24 General Assembly: To Remove the 99% Declaration from NYCGA.net”

  1. Lisette Depew-Kubie

    As a person who finally became actively engaged in the overall Occupy movement because of seeing the 99 Declaration.org’s wonderful and inspiring ad running on the Keith Olbermann show, I feel this proposal is very harsh and accusatory in nature. We are all on the same page. We are united in spirit and resolve! Why would the NYC-GA want to penalize or chastise this group? There have been obscenely transparent financial and operational disclosures, the group has NEVER claimed to be any sort of “leader” or “spokesperson” for the entire Occupy movement. As a matter of fact, Mr. Pollack has taken great pains to humble himself and the efforts put forth by the 99 Declaration.org group. We need to work together. Our group has chosen to run TV ads and DRAFT a declaration as a starting point – as a first step – in walking forward TOGETHER. The NYC-GA position seems harsh and rude and exclusionary in nature. How sad. We just want to help…..like you do. Please remember, this type of perceived fracturing of the overall movement does not serve it well. Thank you for your time.

  2. Nancy Marcus Newman

    I am a Member of The 99% Declaration Board. I am also new to the workings of OWS and the web interactions leading to the development of the Points for The 99% Declaration, so please bear with me.

    We just today learned of this Proposal for this evening’s GA. As it is Christmas Eve, our Board and other interested participants in The 99% Declaration have not had adequate notice of this proposal. Accordingly, in the interests of true Democracy and allowing all voices to be heard, we respectfully request that this issue discussion be postponed until a later date when we can participate and provide our input and information to attendees. We are on the same side. Any issues at hand are based upon misconceptions. We seek Truth and Transparency in all processes. For that, we need to be allowed participation.

    I met with several Members of OWS at Occupy Philly GA several weeks ago, and we at 99%D have been working on compliance with your Working Group requirements. I did not realize that the issue of our presence on NYCGA.NET was of imminent concern, and I apologize for not addressing the issue immediately. But we have, and continue to have, every intention of working with you, in compliance with your requirements, and in full transparency and openness toward tacit and implicit cooperation. Please see below.

    We have no hidden agenda. we are here for the same purpose. Let’s work together.

    We would like to request that you allow us to remain as a presence on NYCGA.NET, and that we work together to facilitate participation of interested Occupiers (New York and nationally) in the 99% Declaration. We would be happy to state publicly on NYCGA.NET a disclaimer explaining our current status as a Group seeking Official OWS Group Status in accordance with the new parameters set forth on 12/20 by GA, and we would ask that we not be singled out in this regard, but that ALL Groups with a presence on NYCGA.NET be similarly compliant with Group Status guidelines and requirements.

    WE DO NOT PURPORT TO REPRESENT OWS, THE OCCUPY MOVEMENT OR IN ANY WAY REPRESENT OCCUPY OR OCCUPIERS IN ANY OFFICIAL OR UNOFFICIAL CAPACITY.

    We are simply like-minded individuals, many of us Occupiers, who seek to establish a true vehicle for having the Voice of the 99% (through Occupy or otherwise) heard.

    We are presently working to meet the minimum requirements for a Working Group of OWS, and we seek your assistance. The requirements were set forth by GA ratified guidelines defining working groups passed 12/20/11, and we would appreciate a reasonable amount of time to bring our activities into compliance with your requirements. Especially in view of the fact that it is the Holiday Season, we would be very grateful for some leeway here, so we can work together and Partner with you. At a minimum, we would like to be granted 30 days from the date of the consent to the new definition to bring our Group activities into compliance.

    To allow for National participation, our work is based online, through our Facebook Page. Accordingly, we would like to work with you to develop a working, supportive relationship with OWS (and other Occupy Groups). We are working on the following actions:

    hold at least one public meeting per week in New York City.
    We are presently soliciting Members of OWS to serve as Working Group Liaisons for The 99% Declaration to hold a physical, public weekly meeting in NYC.

    2. based in New York City
    We would like to Propose that The OWS 99% Declaration Working Group be based in NYC and provide input to The 99% Declaration Board on behalf of OWS, as two entities that are separate and independent yet collaborating and cooperating towards common goals.

    3. is constituted of a minimum of 5 people
    There are presently 120 Members on the 99% Declaration OWS Web. There are a number of people in NYC who are interested in joining our meetings and group, and we hope OWS will facilitate their participation through the mechanism of an established, compliant official Working Group.

    4. adheres to principles of transparency by publishing on NYCGA.net [or submitting a written copy to Comhub]:
    their contact information
    meeting minutes which include number of attendees [hand-written minutes should be typed and e-mailed to comhub]
    a mission statement, charter, or other descriptive text that describes what they do and how they do it

    All donations to The 99% Declaration are through Paypal and are disclosed on our website in compliance with our requirements as a nonprofit tax exempt organization. We are in the process of posting links to our corporate formation documents, Mission Statement, and descriptive text outlining our Board Members background and the workings and structure of our organization.

    All required information is or will be expeditiously posted on our website:
    http://www.the99declaration.org

    Due to the nature of our efforts, many Occupiers are active on our Facebook Page and on the ground, supporting development of a list of grievances for which we, citizens of the United States of America, seek redress. We include citizens from all walks of life across America, Occupiers and non-Occupiers alike, who wish to set forth the Points for redress. We seek to facilitate and support The Occupy Movement. We are here for you, and because of you, to give the 99% a Voice, long established in our History, and born as the Continental Congress which was the primary mechanism that birthed our Democracy.

    We have not, officially or unofficially, purported to be representing OWS. Several INDIVIDUAL AND INDEPENDENT postings on the Web have “mixed” The 99%D and OWS, and we are doing our level best to prevent any mistaken representations. ie There is the appearance that there is fundraising being done in the name of “OWS” on http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/10/1043968/-OWS-National-General-Assembly-Needs-Funds-Please-Donate. This was a post by an individual not authorized by 99%D and I would ask that the reference to OWS be removed from the post, but I cannot get in touch with the poster or figure out how to comment on dailykos. Again, the important point is that we at 99%D are not attempting to hold ourselves out as representatives of OWS, or any Occupy GA or related Group.

    We have been conducting our own fundraising thus far, and would like to seek approval to engage in future fundraising, as an OWS Approved Event, from the OWS GA, for The National General Assembly to be held July 4, 2012 in Philadelphia. We are your Brothers and Sisters in solidarity. We are part of the Movement. We operate Democratically. We seek to facilitate manifestation of the changes for which OWS stands.

    Tonight, on Christmas Eve, let us stand together and work cooperatively towards our common goal of positive change for America.

    • Patrick Conway

      Either you’re intentionally misrepresenting the facts or are merely duped — this post is sad either way. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now; rest assured that many of us here know Michael & company much, much better than you do.

      99%D has been in non-compliance with the NYCGA principles of solidarity since the moment it was formed by an ambitious lawyer and a few of his lawyer friends. Lovely speech you have here, but it hides a *ton* of lies, especially around fundraising and media coverage, where everything is always oh-so-accidental. When I and several others asked Michael back in October to either take down the declaration or clearly mark it as draft in response to the HP and FOX coverage, he repeatedly and vehemently refused, despite the fact that no vote of any kind had ever taken place in regard to the document. Same thing with the OWS fundraising reference at DailyKOS, for sure. Someone on here said they reached out and requested the reference be removed but couldn’t get in touch with anyone. That’s Michael alright; he’s very good at being inaccessible when it might mean having to answer to the people he falsely claims to represent.

      The 99%D are not part of us, and they never were. Their self-appointed leaders do not care for democracy *at all* except inamuch as they can use the appearance of it to enrich and empower themselves. They will be getting publicly kicked out of OWS and NYCGA.net – it’s only a matter of time.

      On the bright side, good luck with your new political party; I wish you, Michael and his many other followers all the best — no hard feelings and happy trails.

  3. Sam Redman

    @lisette

    You have a complete misunderstanding concerning the objectives of the two groups. Occupy Wall Street is concerned with horizontal non-representative democracy. Plus, OWS is a movement to bring about a non-violent overthrow of the existing form of representative government, in other words the House and Senate and the Electoral College.

    The 99declaration group is about electing a slate of representatives and working with the existing congressional bodies.

    Diametrically opposed. At cross purposes. Never the twain shall meet.

    • vets74

      Occupy has been explicitly committed to nonviolence from the beginning and in the style developed by M.K. Gandhi and Dr. M.L. King, Jr. Beyond this how-to commitment, Occupy is not in the least interested in functioning as a Nader-like False Front to siphon off votes from left and center candidates in contests against corporatists.

      This The 99% Working Group, Ltd. states the opposite. On their front page:

      “6. If the grievances are not redressed and solutions implemented within a reasonable time, the National General Assembly will reconvene electronically or in person and organize a new independent political party to run for all of the 435 House seats and 33 Senate seats in 2014.”

      There is no commitment to nonviolence whatsoever. No commitment to get the criminal class within the 1% prosecuted. No commitment to get more jobs generated for Americans. Their fundamental aim is to drive a vote-draining 3rd Party.

      The lawyers running this The 99% Working Group, Ltd. could be representing anybody from the political edges of the 1%. They are certainly not paying these teevee ad bills out of their personal nonpartisan pockets. Best bet, they are shills.

      Yeah, Sam, eff ‘em. Get them out of here yesterday.

      At the best they are a vote-siphon fraud. An effort similar to the Ron Paul scam that aims to talk leftie on military/environment/whatever then take votes away from anti-corporatist candidates by harping on abortion. These creeps are rolling it for a Third Party – right out front about it.

      In Occupy we are our own leaders.

      In the 99% Working Group, Ltd. they are paid house-shills for the corporations.

      Eff ‘em.

      (Also, the Lions are doing pretty well against SanD. Good for them. That team lost so bad for so long…. Kinda like the American Middle Class losing again and again for the last 30 years.)

  4. Sam Redman

    Not only are we not “on the same page,” we are in two different books.

    • Nancy Marcus Newman

      You are mistaken. We are in the same book. The book of history. You misunderstand the mechanism of the 99% Declaration. This is why we seek to educate, inform and encourage participation. This is a primary mechanism for non violent change and voice of the People. Please do not attempt to shut it down. Let’s have a discussion, find our Common Ground, and work together to provide an instrument for Positive Change.

      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Congress

      Peace and Blessings on this Christmas Eve to All

      • reddogcafe

        The ‘mechanism for non violent change’ was written into the Constitution by the framers who anticipated this future moment. The appropriate technique is ‘to educate, inform and encourage participation’ by the 151,000,000 disgusted and fed up citizens who lack objectives, initiative and solutions. The only thing they need is a clearly defined goal and a clearly defined process to get them there.
        Poll are showing 73% to 85% support for the ill formed demands of OWS.

        Peace.

    • Steve Scher

      note from a long time Pollok supporter:
      “Well, for those of you that haven’t realized it yet, I have withdrawn my support of the 99% declaration. I was first made aware of a change within the document by Lisa Longo, who showed me that a new political party was in “the plan”. It was not there when I offered my support, and the opportunity to discuss it was never initiated by anyone that had the rights to edit the document”…..

      • Nancy Marcus Newman

        Steve — There is NO new political party in “the plan” at all. I was, for a moment, individually and independently involved SEPARATELY in the newly forming “Justice Party”, was involved in it prior to joining the Board of 99%D, which may have led to some confusion, however that was momentary. Changes cannot take place within the current Party paradigm, IMHO. I have resigned and relinquished all association with the Justice Party, or any party for that matter. The 99%D is the vehicle for change, not any political party. The Plan reflects that and it was never otherwise. Hope we will again earn your trust and support.

        • the99declaration

          He is liar. I changed that political party language at Steve Shcer’s request days ago and now her quotes the old language when he knows we changed the language.

          • Steve Scher

            Mr Pollok: thank you for your post.
            It increased your exposure considerably.

            Regarding the party issue;
            Fact : I received an unsolicited communication from a long time supporter advising he had quit and the reason : the political party issue.
            He says one thing, you say another.
            I suggest you check in with your various face book pages.

            You have until noon Monday December 26, 2011 to post a correction and apology.

          • Steve Scher

            Oh…. And I made no request.
            You stated ( in ny it is legal to record phone conversation ) you had done so, or it was voted to change and would follow up to make sure it was updated to reflect that.

            Should you not remedy the damage caused by your statements, I’m sure you’ll appreciate the value of being truthful during the discovery process.

            It’s been said only a fool uses himself as his own lawyer. It appears you have given yourself bad advice.

            You’ve been warned repeatedly about harrasment.

            Should.you fail to correct this situation bear in mind you may have to also bear all court and legal expenses in addition to punitive damages and fines levied, as well as loss if your ability to practice.

            The clock is ticking Mr Michael Pollok Esq

          • Steve Scher

            I just read this , and taken a screen shot to preserve it should you attempt to delete it.
            You sir have crossed the line.
            “Steve you are such a scumbag. I changed that language on third party in Clause V AT YOUR REQUEST and now you come here DAYS LATER and quote the old language. You are a filthy lying piece of shit and I am making that call monday morning.”

          • Urbaned

            Mr. Pollak, your character is showing through here. You would call someone these names after a 3-month (or less) affiliation with them? You would threaten them like this? I also wonder why Mr. Scher became your friend so readily the next day after these outrageous comments? It’s no wonder people are walking away from OWS – because of people like you!

        • Urbaned

          Lawyers just love to fight, and (some) people just love to sue. Mr. Pollak, take your group OFF the OWS site. Exit graciously. Get a clear, objective view of your goals, and go for them. It’s obvious to MANY here that they are not in line with OWS at this stage of the game, (it being 3 months old) and as much as you beg and manipulate, that’s not going to change before July 4, 2012. You will do much better elsewhere.

        • Steve Scher

          Then why was the opposite reported again on your Facebook page?
          I posted the direct quote earlier, and can do so again if you wish.

          • the99declaration

            Steve you are such a scumbag. I changed that language on third party in Clause V AT YOUR REQUEST and now you come here DAYS LATER and quote the old language. You are a filthy lying piece of shit and I am making that call monday morning.

  5. Dan Chilton

    Has the GA officially voted to overthrow the government of the united states?
    Would someone point out to me where this has been recorded?
    If it has not been decided, then will some of you stop trying to speak for OWS?

    I would REALLY like an answer please.

    • Steve Scher

      I was advised by he whose name we shall not speak, that it will take four years given congress turn over in thirds every two years. I did not interpret his words as involvement in any violence or unlawful acts.
      Why would any think that of anyone or anything?
      Do you know something I don’t?

      • Dan Chilton

        I know the definition of revolution.
        If it would seem to me that a complete redress of grievances would be significantly transforming of the circumstances, but not of the government/constitution.

  6. Dan Chilton

    Note: The GA voted to essentially welcome people who petition redress of grievances through non- Violence.
    This seems incompatible with revolution.
    Or is this a matter of having all grievances redressed, by the offending authorities, and THEN overthrowing the government ?

  7. mike

    having a GA tonight, on christmas eve, to vote on the expulsion of the99declaration.org as a working group should bring shame to whomever is there. this is petty. the 99dec is trying to see the same goals as ows and has repeatedly apologized for things that happened in the very beginning and has tried to explain its mission to deaf ears repeatedly. if ows gets rid of the99dec, i will be greatly disappointed as i am just a citizen who lives in florida that believes greatly in their list of grievances and has the feeling that ows nycga is not representative of the entire movement and is will have acted in an elitist fashion themselves with censoring the public from different choices. i have seen nothing but transparency from this group so far, am excited to be involved in elections to represent the people next year in philadelphia (which is the type of government this country was founded on, and the advertisements on television that were raised with funds from people across the country show things getting done that are visible on a national level. using a GA on christmas eve when you know that this will pass because the only people there are those that are against the 99dec is sly and wrong. if i knew someone there with a laptop i would skype to be present. don’t shut people out from voicing their opinions. grow up. communicate. find solutions. don’t create borders with your brothers and sisters. happy holidays.

  8. Kiel

    Agreed completely Mike. This is petty. We both have the same aims. How could we ever face down and change the organizations arrayed against us when solidarity is broken down so easily. Occupy, in the opinion needs to have the discussion that 99% Declaration wants to have. Remember that this movement represents so many of us. It will be hard enough to fix what is broken WITH unity. It will be impossible without it. Now is the time for all occupy movements and all of us who support, to unify. I’m not saying it will be easy,but are we serious or not? 99%Declaration is scupulously transparent, and hasnt made a move or statement since I’ve been following their posts, without consulting all of us.

  9. edward

    Having read 99′s facebook posting on this matter, I have to agree with Christina. 99 was asking someone in nyc to go and block proposals concerning 99 at the ga. It’s also clear that they want ows money. They need to learn how to immerse themselves in the working group and The process, not manipulate it…if they want to work with ows. Otherwise, good luck with whatever they have going on.

    • Jondean

      I”m sorry, how is it clear that the 99%D want OWS’s money? They have been successful raising funds on their own, and have not asked OWS for a dime to my knowledge.

  10. Ivo Skoric

    I am saddened to see this split. It reminds me of a typical revolutionary purge. It is true that Declaration 99 is fundamentally different than OWS in that the Declaration intends to create its own alternative representative democracy to serve as a check on the existing one, while OWS insists on direct democracy. But presently there is, imho, more pressing interest in achieving some useful results than in solving internal procedural matters. I don’t see bigger picture being adequately served with this dispute, regardless of the Declaration having stepped out of line, and I hope this proposal was adjourned from Christmas Eve’s agenda.

    • Urbaned

      Once again, and as I have been saying for months, the 99D should have their own WordPress and Buddypress site. They can set one up just like this. People in OWS will know about them, just like we know about the Tea Party, Ron Paul, Obama, moveon. org, Ralph Nader, Michael Moore, etc. The problem here is that the 99D jumped onto OWS from day 1 or 2 with a pre-existing agenda. While I may very well support it (given the chance) I think the tactics here have been harmful. I think calling someone here names is contrary to our values, if indeed, we are all the 99%. I’m frankly tired of the waste of energy of this self-sabotaging faction. I would like to see them leave the nest and fly off on their own – for once and for all. Time is flying by.

    • vets74

      Purging three hidden-agenda, well-financed lawyers ??? Taking note that these *&^$%^&s explicitly aim to turn OWS into a False Front cesspool that runs turd-candidates?

      Boo-effin’-hoo.

  11. Robert Bows

    The key difference is this: the official OWS should not endorse specific solutions and leaders or other organization. This is how the Tea Party got hijacked, just ask the folks who started it. The great value of the OWS is in occupying various settings and processes to witness the dysfunction of the current system and continuing the worldwide teach-in and discussion that has resulted. There is a lot of education needed, including those who have fashioned the 99% Declaration, which fails to identify the root cause of the .00001%’s power: control over the world’s central banks and the money creation process, which is in private hands and which charges the world interest to use what should be a public utility: money! See publicbankinginstitute.org

  12. blue7053

    Re the GA proposal;

    1: The mindset responsible for this was identified 3000 years ago in the phrase: “You would swallow a camel yet gag at a gnat!”

    2: The US Constitution is just fine and a few marchers will not in a thousand years change a word of it.

    3: The principle problem is the usurpation of the governing bodies -Federal, State, Local- by the 1%.

    4: The proper approach when you have truth on your side is education of those who can return control to the 99%.

    5: The proper way to accomplish this is is through constant and unremitting reminders.

    6: Oh yeah. The reminders should be humorous.

    Lt. Col.

  13. laguy

    @perspicacious (Sam Redman), thank you for saying it out loud. I have been saying it all along that this 99%D group does not belong anywhere within OWS. But if someone wants to remain members of both groups and movements, that is their personal business. It is classic technique to fork off a splinter group and then trying to coopt the mother ship in disguise, it is blatant and obvious. It should never have been allowed to continue within nycga.net as a WG as long as it did.

  14. Dan Chilton

    Occupy Wall Street values collective resources, dignity, integrity and autonomy above money.
    We have not made endorsements. All donations are accepted anonymously and are transparently allocated via consensus by the General Assembly or the Operational Spokes Council.

    Any organization is welcome to support us with the knowledge that doing so will mean questioning your own institutional frameworks of work and hierarchy and integrating our principles into your modes of action.

    We acknowledge the existence of professional activists who work to make our world a better place. If you are representing, or being compensated by an independent source while participating in our process, please disclose your affiliation at the outset. Those seeking to capitalize on this movement or undermine it by appropriating its message or symbols are not a part of Occupy Wall Street.

  15. Dan Chilton

    I don’t see any forking off, except some people in OWS saying what OWS is and what 99D can not be.
    Lets say 99D polled its members from across the USA to – create a political party.
    Suppose the GA rejected it.
    Whats the harm?
    Has there actually been a violation? or is this more of a trust issue?
    —-
    I don’t know them.
    It seems they’re exploring the idea of creating a mechanism to coordinate local GAs.
    Maybe it will integrate well,
    Maybe it will be like spokes…
    Maybe it will be an ally…
    Some people might affect change that OWS seeks through a political party.
    Maybe OWS needs to explore that, and maybe needs to have a close but seperate ally that could do this.
    Rejecting them out of hand on Christmas eve seems like a very scrooge like very 1% kind of thing to do…

  16. Sam Redman

    Proposal to remove 99 working group did not come up for consideration at tonight’s GA. Lot’s of people are away for holidays with families. This will be accomplished better indoors next time. Too cold to get this covered properly.

  17. Steve Scher

    I suggest Mr Pollok you use the time wisely.
    From the comments I read tonight directed towards you by individuals associated with you you are skating on thin ice.

  18. laguy

    It is forking off because:

    - they are using a different brand name 99%D, which is not OWS or “Occupy” anything or anyplace
    - they are collecting donations on their own
    - their plan is to elect delegates by July 4, 2012, take the declaration grievances to congress if the grievances are not addressed they will take part in 2012 elections with their candidates, in essence they will create a new 3rd party like Americans Elect or Justice Party

    None of the above was approved by any of the occupy GA’s anywhere, as far as I know. So how are they part of OWS again, other than the fact that they insist on being a part, which means what – to me it seems like a case of using OWS popularity and create another completely separate movement. The biggest harm is that it is creating confusion among unsuspecting OWS (NY) and other local occupy members and participants, who are not closely following this issue. Come election time if the 99%D group/party siphons off votes from the Democratic party, then it will have real impact in our 2 houses and that is a serious real life potential fall out that can develop from this apparently harmless association and OWS will be blamed if the Republicans get the upper hand. Hope its clear why OWS needs to be careful about this kind of apparently harmless associations.

    Now if NYCGA and other GA’s together reach a consensus that they will take part in the 2012 election, then that becomes a different matter, but as far as I can tell, OWS or Occupy movement has not made that decision yet. Hope that explains why this is forking off.

    • Urbaned

      Well put. They put OWS at risk in many ways. If Mr. Pollak has not recognized this, he is powerfully detrimental to OWS. It’s a shame.

    • Dan Chilton

      The proposal is to remove 99D from nycga.NET so this isnt total banishment.
      Supposedly 99D was a workgroup. Yes be careful.
      Best not to make a mistake about ‘apparently harmless ‘ or ‘appearently harmful.’
      An ugly split is not a good outcome either. (OWS eats its young)

      Perhaps 99D and the GA will reach an understanding. Or a compromise.
      Maybe the ‘delegates’ can act like spokes.
      And a political party would be a plan B months from now…
      And maybe OWS can make useful ‘spinoffs’ that benefit OWS.

      OWS seems to have it right about inspiring individuals to action.
      Maybe it can inspire groups as well.

      I’m hoping that however it works out we can be proud of the process and the way we behave.

    • Jonny12key

      Hi, I’m an occasional OWS marcher/occupier, AND a 99D activist, both at the same time.

      ACTUALLY, here’s what the current ‘Clause V’ says:

      “V. Election of Independent Candidates for Congress in 2014. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that IF the PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES approved by the 876 Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in consultation with the NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE, is not redressed and acted upon within a reasonable time and to the satisfaction of the Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY, said Delegates shall reconvene to organize a new grassroots campaign to elect independent candidates to Congress who will publicly PLEDGE to redress each and every grievance contained in the ratified PETITION FOR REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES. These independent candidates for the United States House and Senate will seek election in every available Congressional seat in the mid-term election of 2014 and again in 2016 and again in 2018 until all vestiges of the existing corrupt corporate state have been eradicated through the power of the ballot box and the empowerment of the 99%.”

      So, within that language, no one is proposing to ‘run’ anyone, or actually become some new political party in any 2012 elections. In fact, 99D is 100% Party Neutral, and will facilitate the election of delegates to write and then ratify a declaration for The People, not run candidates for 2012 elections.
      But more importantly, and what you might not be aware of, is that there are now ongoing discussions (on 99D’s FB pages) about the idea that 99D may function (in its current Tax Exempt status) as SOLELY a petition-generating entity, and will then essentially be de-commissioned (the way corporations USED to be, when they were only granted a temporary charter by the government in order to fund and create vast public works projects, like building the highways, dams, or coast-to-coast railways). The body that might then re-activate after the “reasonable time to accept and address the grievances” has passed without any or enough change to how ‘Washington Business’ is being done, will most likely be a brand new organization (and will most likely not have a Tax Exempt status, as law demands for organizations that intend to fund/run political candidates in Federal and State elections).
      The 99%Declaration organization is a ever-growing, ever-changing set of living documents, ideas and transparent & open operating procedures. Just like OWS, NYCGA (and all #Occupy GA’s) are.
      It is, also, a fellow tine on the pitchfork that we are ALL trying to forge, with designs of landing it in the ass of the 1%. There’s really no point in trying to blunt the neighboring tribe’s tine, if it’s on the same pitchfork that your tine is on.

      • Dan Chilton

        Reading and understanding is a good thing.
        Its unfortunate that there has been misunderstanding and more heat than light.

      • laguy

        I admit I have not seen the latest version, so there has been some changes in the text, 2012 election has now been changed to 2014 election, I think.

        But the rest of the points and concerns I mentioned remains valid.

        The best course of action for the 99%D group will be to declare that it will no longer exist, stop their fund raising and organizing with their stated goals and all members should just become active with respective local occupy GA’s, if the group really wants to help the occupy (OWS) movement. This would end all confusions and endless waste of time for a non issue. Let the former 99%D members push for their goals from within the structure of the OWS as a working group of any GA, if they want to. OWS is open an inclusive and if they can transform OWS from within, all the better for them and OWS.

        But if they want to exist as a separate movement, then they should do so on their own. They should not try to co-opt OWS or create confusion that they are a part of OWS.

        • Steve Scher

          Again:Chronology: my post was made before I buried the hatchet. Mr. Pollok has no way of knowing that.

  19. laguy

    About doing it on Christmas eve, that part I agree with, lets wait till the vacation is over and everyone is back in place, so they get a fair hearing. That is what Sam Redman (@perspicacious) just mentioned in his post.

  20. Steve Scher

    Excellent… Common sense prevails…
    Please do not let the actions of one person cause this group to be miss-understood.
    As they say build it and they will come, in this case I say seek and we will find a way.
    These good people deserve better.

  21. Steve Scher

    One final point, then I really wish to move on.
    Besides the Facebook communication I received as I partially posted one only has to do a simple google search to find it still in evidence.

    For example, at your own website-

    http://www.the99declaration.org/category/press/

    Click on link :
    The 99% Declaration Printable Handout Version

    Page seven

    There it still is in caps.

    So Mr Pollok on your website now, from Facebook yesterday from one of your associates…
    I am not a liar.

    As to your other descriptive pronouncements, you’d have to ask someone such as my wife.. Oh wait…she might agree.

    Mr. Pollok I privately sent you an email early in this exchange.
    I made you very aware of the “special” situation. I am in, so
    I had best come out of the closet so to speak.

    I am a member of the disabled working group.
    I joined since I am what is called an individual with what is termed an atypical brain. My doctor advised me that I have Aspergers syndrome, on a high functioning level. I also am, and have been treated by the same doctor for clinical depression and anxiety.

    In my private post to you I stressed that your actions were having a deleterious effect on me. You scare me. You intimidate me.
    So I am weird, strange, I seem to be able to recall things easily in great detail.
    Including negative events with all the emotions.
    So I am all or that.
    But I am not a liar.
    Telling lies complicates things, among other reasons not to engage in that you of negative behavior.

    I will continue to speak the truth.
    You do me and the people you represent a disservice.

    • Patrick Conway

      Try to understand: Michael Pollock doesn’t represent anyone other than Michael Pollock, nor does he care to be bothered doing so.

  22. reddogcafe

    Every generation must learn some things for themselves but this is not one of them. Community organizers have hundreds of years of empirical data to support the Kennedy School’s Marshall Ganz. Presidential adviser Jared Bernstein and Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman and others (myself) are concerned that phase one has passed and it is now time to form the organization.
    To move a nation of 300,000,000 people, you need the support of 151,000,000.
    Ten thousand or a hundred thousand cannot do it by themselves.

    The future, in this case, is described by the past. There are clearly things which must be done and ‘successful’ organizational forms which must be adopted. Many of these are in the pronouncements of the 99D and are lacking in the GA of OWS. It’s not a question of ‘usurping’ the name of OWS. OWS will die of its own bad form in impossible attempts. This should not be allowed to happen due to poor management practices of the organizers.

    This valuable and needed thing cannot be held hostage by the arrogance and pride of its creators.

  23. BradB

    I wouldn’t worry so much.. Fear is our worst enemy… :)

    whereas the 99% Declaration is not as radical a move(ment) … nor an International one as OWS is aiming for… there is no reason that we (OWS) should “not” support all movements that lead in the right direction… it is not an either/or solution… that is needed…. it is a ”we need everything solution”, if we are going to solve the problems and make change…. hopefully, if actually implemented…. the 99% Declaration would be but a first step into changing our (America’s) government…. I personally want more radical change… but I also see that the 99% Declaration could “not” stop more radical change… and in fact it will greatly help moving the entire 99% into thinking for more… I very much welcome ”the 99% Declaration” …. and I hope all of the Occupy’s do also… Happy Holiday’s All ….

  24. tinysparrow333

    I agree with Brad. It is time to move nationally and I love the 99% Declaration. I want to see it succeed on my behalf. And it definitley came out of OWS, it is like a child. Let it go and grow. Be proud of it.

  25. Steve Scher

    Diversity is another way of saying don’t put all your eggs in one basket.
    The 99% Declaration Working Group allows us to spread our wings and fly where otherwise we might not be. It not only belongs in our nest it has the same rights of individual autonomy, one of the basic values of this movement carefully preserved by having been ratified at our general assemblies.

    • vets74

      No way. The aim is stated clearly. That is, these lawyers running “99% Declaration Working Group” intend to set up a False Front third party.

      This The 99% Working Group, Ltd. states the opposite. On their front page:
      - – - – - – - – -
      “6. If the grievances are not redressed and solutions implemented within a reasonable time, the National General Assembly will reconvene electronically or in person and organize a new independent political party to run for all of the 435 House seats and 33 Senate seats in 2014.”
      - – - – - – - – - –
      Siphoning votes away from left and center candidates — that is what this is all about. Not another single thing.

        • vets74

          Now you’re lying about it. Got caught with your hands in the cookie jar.

          Nothing run by three lawyers with their own pre-set agenda and with significant hidden financing should be allowed to have anything to do with OWS. These toads were running teevee ads on a national cable channel.

          Erase the WG, erase the accounts and comments, ban, and if they insist then get a restraining order.

          “Go to Hell” is too good for corporatist scum/saboteurs. They’re as bad as the agent provocateurs at Air&Space, October 8th, or the two bus loads at Oakland in “Black Block” costumes. Same difference.

    • Steve Scher

      While waiting patiently for a response, would you mind please posting the link to your source?

      The declaration statement, I am aware ,has morphed several times,and i too found older versions.

      The other points you raise are concerns I know many share.

  26. Matt Ready

    Hey Everyone! I just got myself caught up on this 99% Declaration situation. Here is my humble 2 cents:

    The 99% Declaration and plan has some great ideas in it. It also has a detailed plan and timeline for action.

    The small group of people leading the 99% Declaration action plan- to make this massive national delegate election and constitutional congress happen – this small group of people is working on a plan without the collaboration, cooperation, endorsement, or participation of ANY general assemblies. As such, it is not an action of a leaderless movement, it is an action with specific leaders, such as Mr. Pollok.

    Mr. Pollok, although ill tempered it seems, may be a wonderful and brilliant person- but by trying to stand before the 99% and say “I know what needs to happen, here is the blue print, follow my instructions” you are asking for people to just put their faith in you. Your blue print has some great ideas- who knows, maybe it is even a great plan for fixing the world. The problem is, the change our world needs is not going to happen by everyone following the plan of a leader (or group of leaders).

    If you or anyone else has ideas or plans that will help us transform our world into a better place, get the money out of politics, and elevate freedom and equality for all people- then bring your ideas and plans to a working group- and then to a General Assembly. Engage the general assembly in your ideas. Engage the working groups. Participate. Do not try to lead.

    The beauty of the General Assembly and of direct democracy is that there are NO Leaders. You may be smarter and wiser than everyone else in the room, but that doesn’t mean everyone else is going to follow you. If the GA doesn’t agree with you, then try and convince it- but just listen to the feedback- and consider for a moment you may not have all the answers. You will find the GA is an amazing teacher.

    The General Assembly of every direct democracy and every Occupy group in the world is like a young child. It is growing smarter, more effective, and wiser every time it meets and works through a tough issue. Mr. Pollock, if a constitutional convention is the answer, then the GA’s will eventually see that- and every Occupy GA in the nation will work together to make it happen.

    But, maybe a constitutional convention is not the answer. Perhaps, all the grievances you and I both share can be resolved using a different tactic? Perhaps all we need is a united national movement that is so engrained in the grass roots of the people, that it can literally pass a hatful of constitutional amendments over the next 5 years?

    Or perhaps rather than a constitutional convention, we instead should be seeking to call for a national General Assembly to meet? And perhaps participation in this GA is not determined by elections…maybe anyone can attend and some system worked out at the convention to make it equitable geographically?

    Mr. Pollock and the other individuals involved in the 99% declaration, you obviously have some brains and I hope you sincerely care deeply about the same issues that almost everyone in Occupy Wall Street care about. Your list of grievances seems very strong to me for what its worth.

    I don’t think your plan for a constitutional convention in 2012 is going to happen. It is the type of grand action that would require the endorsement of every Occupy GA in the nation. That seems out of the question- mainly due to the way in which the 99% Declaration has positioned itself as an authority over the whole plan.

    I wonder, if you had brought the 99% declaration to the NYCGA as a proposal, what wonderful friendly amendments might have been made to try and make it more in line with direct democracy? Who knows. It might have been transformed into something much more beautiful and wise than what it is today. Maybe it would have failed the first time. Maybe it would have been sent back to the WG to rework 3, 4, 5 times.. but eventually you might have formed a plan that the GA enthusiastically endorsed and helped promote and make happen. Who knows. Maybe if the 99% Declaration plan falters this year, you will consider giving the direct democracy process a try- by bringing your proposals to a GA and working through the process?

    • claire mooney

      Thank you so much for this post. I agree strongly that we should work these issues out in a proposal to the NYCGA!

  27. Michael Pollok

    not true we have almost 7000 online members who vote on all changes in the document as we have practiced since we started the group with seven people in October. We have since formed a not for profit group and filed with the IRS and NYS. We are raising our own funds have put a deposit on the venue. We have asked all of the GA’s to run candidates in the election so their voices and input can be reflected in the final petition of grievances that will be served upon the government. No one is compelled to participate and we speak for no one but our group members. We hope OWS will join us in this important work but if not, others in the 99% will.

    • vets74

      “We have asked all of the GA’s to run candidates in the election….”

      You present a well-financed False Front effort at using Occupy energies to generate a vote-siphoning third party. All of your efforts wrapped in a clone to the Ron Paul leftie-tinted flag.

      And yes, we OWSedrs did fall off the turnip truck… just not yesterday.

    • Patrick Conway

      Hi again Michael!

      I must say that I certainly wasn’t expecting to run into you again quite so soon, and on the NYCGA website, no less!

      While you may have 7000 loyal followers who all happen to vote your way, I and many others here remember all the people who weren’t allowed to vote because they didn’t happen to agree with you. I’m looking forward to voting for 99%D to be cut loose, same way you cut us loose.

      Best wishes for success with your OWS-ripoff 3rd party, and no hard feelings.

    • edward

      I was bounced off their fb page for explaining that they should bring their proposals to working groups. Any input which the 99D people do not appreciate seems to lead to excommunication. Some democracy they have going there. It seems that vets74 is entirely correct.

  28. Dan Chilton

    I’d like to know how 99D plans to represent an opinion, or support, and whose opinion? Is this supposed to represent GAs from across the usa?
    Is it an all-are-invited poll of americans?
    Are they vetted? Americans? Members of local Occupies?
    Members of local GAs?

    In support of D99 and OWS I’d like to see a kind of integration of the many Occupies across the Nation, both for communication, integration, coordination, a sense of unity, and perhaps to pool ideas resources, and energy.
    I’d like to see something spelled out clearly.
    Either specific plans or alternative proposals.
    Is 99D’s purpose to just to list demands? Or to elect deligates to represent the people who formulated the goals?
    And how does the NYC GA fit into this?
    Is it the hub of the wheel? The capitol of OWS?
    If these things have not been precisely defined, is it too early to ask for clarity about these matters?
    If its all under development, then is someone working on proposals to make this come together?
    Just seeking clarity of purpose here…

  29. Dan Chilton

    Another point-
    Some of the list of grievances propose specific solutions, like ending the fed , starting a congressional study…
    A list of grievances is a great 2nd step after a vision statement.

    I’m not sure we’re expert enough to propose solutions.
    I have some ideas, but its alot to ask 7000 people to agree on solutions.

    Just naming the problems is a big and important step…
    Best to not get ahead of ourselves here…

  30. James Sanders

    Firstly..I’d like to say happy holidays to all and yours. =) That aside:

    @drchill

    Ya know..I have come to ALWAYS look forward to your posts here Dan..and I wanted to take a moment to say that in all sincerity and honesty. I like the fact that if you are bashing..not trying to say you are..but in case you are..at least you do it with honest questions and wait for answers..and I respect and appreciate that. With that out of the way..I’ll try to address your questions. For the rest with questions above..forgive me..but I have my three children for the holiday..and my time is limited.

    With regards to:

    “I’d like to know how 99D plans to represent an opinion, or support, and whose opinion? Is this supposed to represent GAs from across the usa?
    Is it an all-are-invited poll of americans?
    Are they vetted? Americans? Members of local Occupies?
    Members of local GAs?”

    Answer: This is not to represent OWS/Occupy..but ALL people of the United States..whether they be OWS/Occupy or not. It is the ideal of the final elected delegates actually DOING what our present government elected office holders NO LONGER DO..speak for their constituents through LISTENING to them and doing as they are asked..NOT through REPLACING government..unless it fails to redress the eventual grievances said delegates will later determine based on the people’s needs..what the people tell them are their grievances..through getting their elected bottoms out into their voting districts and LISTENING to what their people tell them they want on the grievance list.

    “Is 99D’s purpose to just to list demands? Or to elect deligates to represent the people who formulated the goals?”

    Answer: 99%D is a FACILITATION GROUP..nothing more..nothing less..with the SOLE INTENT to FACILITATE the election of delegates and provide them a place to work on the declaration. There has been some talk that MAYBE 99%D MIGHT continue past that point as a petitioning body..but that is not anything officially group decided yet as to my knowledge..but I will admit..if government actually DOES realize a need to act on the declaration and listen..I see potential great value in 99%D continuing in that capacity to ensure the people’s voice..as a collective..continues to be heard.

    “If its all under development, then is someone working on proposals to make this come together?”

    Answer: I’m not quite totally sure of what you’re asking with this..I think I have a clue..but not positive..so based on that I will try to answer this as best I can..and hopefully it is on the same mind track you were on in asking it. I have been working as the committee organizer to provide suggestions on a committee structure to address the needs for our group goals and endeavors. Those wishing to see this work in progress can do so through my facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=331678713508853 In doing so..I’ve tried to write checks and balances into it to distribute power as evenly as possible to ensure group control and financial integrity. We’re also planning a Facilitation Committee as a blanket to this structure with 15 members. 6 of those members are board appointed..the other 9 will be group volunteers/group elected in the event volunteers out number requirements. I am one of the board appointed to the Facilitation Committee..and will more than likely sit on the Communications & Technology Committee as well. Also..in attempts to further show and prove we’re not trying to co-opt anything..I have abstained from using OWS/Occupy terminology concerning “working groups”..but you could view them as such in the OWS hierarchy.

    “Some of the list of grievances propose specific solutions, like ending the fed , starting a congressional study…
    A list of grievances is a great 2nd step after a vision statement.”

    Answer: In MANY ways..I’m REALLY STARTING TO HATE THIS GRIEVANCE LIST =) That being said..here’s why. It is a REPRESENTATION of what a final declaration MIGHT look like. It is there as a visual representation to help people understand exactly what we’re getting at..and understand the final “product” we’re there to facilitate the creation of. It’s been said many times within our FB pages..the delegates..once elected..may choose to run with some or all of the grievances as listed..but they can just as easily decide to wipe their asses with them and create their own..this is not our concern..it is up the the elected delegates to bring and list the grievances as expressed by those people in their voting district.

    • Dan Chilton

      Thanks. I’ve been posting on-line for a VERY long time (I remember 300 baud on compuserve) and I’ve learned a little bit about trying to see past the noise and smoke and try to understand whats going on.
      There’s an expression I like. ‘First seek to understand, then seek to be understood.’

      Okay will digest what you’ve written, and go to facebook to see more.
      I’ve had some trouble with the 99d website. I can’t register, or I can’t comment on some of the proposals.
      So maybe the site can have more mention & links to FB, as that seems to be part of 99D. Can you forward that suggestion?
      Ciao’

      • Patrick Conway

        A) They don’t want you commenting. That’s why you can’t comment.
        B) Even when you can comment, nothing will come of it.

        As long as you are comfortable with rules A and B above, you will enjoy your stay in 99%D. :-)

        • Paula Smith

          The website is still under construction and some areas are not yet fully functional. This is expected to change this week, and we hope to have any remaining website issues resolved before New Year’s.

          The website is pretty inaccessible RIGHT NOW due to overwhelming traffic in response to the airing of our commercial tonight on Current TV.

          :D

        • James Sanders

          I find it quite funny when people post such allegations..so really Patrick..you were actually involved with 99%D last when? I guess their can never be a logical reason for anything happening or not happening at times unless it’s co-opting “your” movement..or nefarious in nature too right? Anyways..as Paula has already stated..having some issues on the website as the direct result of commercials airing. At this point..Urbanned and whomever else..I just don’t have time to be over here anymore..way too much to be done..so have your fun and spread your allegations..which are still..IMHO..based solely on vendetta..a need for Michael to “pay for his crimes”..and large pissing contests about who gets credit for ideas or whatever..there is nothing more for me to say that I haven’t already said..it would only be repeating it..for the benefit of people reading this page so they knew it was said and already defended..which to me..with the number of new pages OWS likes creating to blast the same kind of allegations against us on..their intent is obviously to wear us down to the point where we don’t defend anymore because we just can’t keep up..if this was not the case..in my opinion..someone would post links to the other COPIOUS pages with LONG RUNNING discussion on this very topic..but rather than do that..here we go for it to be rehashed again..same arguments and allegations myself..and many others have defended and proven were BS..whatever..I don’t have the time for this.

  31. James Sanders

    To address the FIXATION so many have on clause V, I feel the need to write this in clarification as it’s been used for so many things. There are those that wish to suggest we’re going to either BECOME a party, or SUPPORT a party, and that is just simply not the case. It’s also been suggested that we are in some kind of violation because of our non-profit status, which again, because of reader’s failure to understand the legalities of document law, OR the concept of fiduciary capacity, is another FALSEHOOD.

    Firstly, I will mention the group mission stating very specifically that we are PARTY NEUTRAL, which we neither support nor endorse ANY POLITICAL PARTY. That is a premise of our group. Why might you ask? To do so would invalidate our legitimacy of being a facilitation group towards the simple goal of facilitating the election of delegates to write a declaration FOR the people. We do this not to replace government, but to ELEVATE the COLLECTIVE voice of the people. As we do not support a political party, we do not support any candidate or currently elected official, and clause V is there for later action should government fail to redress the grievances within a reasonable time, so this is not illegal. Furthermore, if this group chooses to act upon clause V, in absence of another group stepping up to take the torch, all it takes is a simple change of non-profit status for us to do so. The suggested points of something illegal about 99%D based on the above premises are moot.

    Which brings me to my next point, that whole “illegal activity” of our non-profit suggested. This is a FALSHOOD on a few principles. Firstly, as already stated, we are PARTY NEUTRAL and have NOT, as a group, ENDORSED ANY CANDIDATE or PARTY. Debate on our website or pages does NOT constitute endorsement. It’s sad that many can’t realize that. Just like any other group of people, we talk about more than just our group goals, and sometimes, that might even be the weather, but that does not mean we endorse the weather either. I know, it’s kind of sad to have to say this, but there are MANY out there that seem to think just because we sometimes dip to political debate that somehow that’s proof that we endorse or support a candidate or party. Enough said on that.

    Moving on to the next point, people’s failure to understand contractual law and the fiduciary capacity 99%D, and the eventual elected delegates, holds with regard to the people of the United States, given our plans and goals. A fiduciary is someone who has undertaken to act for and on behalf of another in a particular matter in circumstances which give rise to a relationship of trust and confidence. The delegates of he 99%D, and 99%D in organizing, intend to act on behalf of the people of the United States through a democratic process to ascertain what they people want listed, in their list of grievances, to convey a collective, and loud, voice to our government. This is the root fundamental reason why people make accusations about the supposed “illegal” activity of our non-profit.

    It seems that people wish to latch onto things, assuming that the declaration is for the 99%D, and that is their first failure. It is for the people. 99%D is facilitating a process to ascertain what the people want, then elevating that people voice through the process established to, if you would, HEAR that people’s voice and interpret it. Put simply, if 99%D were only drafting the declaration for 99%D members, then this would potentially be an illegal activity for our non-profit. However, given this is a process to elevate the collective voice of the people of the United States and it is THEIR declaration; it is NOT an illegal activity for our non-profit. 99%D is acting as fiduciary to the people, and as such, the people own the declaration, not 99%D. The people will determine what’s listed in that final declaration, through their elected delegates, not the 99%D.

  32. vets74

    OWS works well as a conduit for protest. A lot of bad **** has happened/built_up over the last 30 years that needs to be hammered. We’re certainly not seeing the stuff of social justice on corporatist media outlets. Three items took center stage at the start of OWS NYC and in Boston during the first weeks:
    - We are our own leaders
    - Prosecuting corporate corruption is essential to get back on track
    - We need more jobs

    The list for what’s needed to support social justice expanded rapidly from there.

    What OWS can provide is a seriously Nonviolent Direct Action structure for all of the important social justice protests. Nonviolence is the fulcrum, as pointed out by Gandhi and King. Nonviolence becomes the central How-To mechanism as laid out with the Gandhi/King/SCLC “Nine Principles”:
    ________________

    Pledge For Nonviolence

    1. As you prepare for Occupy Wall Street, please open yourself to life, love and the blessings of faith, hope, and charity.
    2. Refrain from violence of fist, tongue and heart.
    3. Walk and talk in the manner of love; for truth and love are the core of life, neither ambition nor the temptations of control.
    4. Sacrifice personal wishes that all might be free.
    5. Observe with friends, with false friends and with your foes the ordinary rules of courtesy.
    6. Perform regular service for others and the world.
    7. Pray or simply ask within to be moved so that all men and women might be free.
    8. Remember that nonviolence seeks Justice and Reconciliation – not victory.
    9. Strive to be in good spirits and in good health. We are the 99% and we must go in peace.
    ________________

    Protests all across the range can benefit from this exposure. OWS is the river. OWS operates best where it operates like the Civil Rights Movement, a broad Mississippi for public expression.

    Third party? Running candidates from every local GA? Taking activists out of protest work to do Constitutional Assembly mental masturbation? That’s nothing to do with the strengths of OWS.

    At best this is three lawyers wasting our energies.

    Plainly, this “99% Declaration” got rolling on money from somewhere. That weren’t somewhere on dah Left.

    Btw: The jobs item – formerly # 3 – has fallen off the table at OWS. Too bad, because that’s a first rate meeting ground for doing work with the original Tea Party founders and their guys. Plus there’s a ****-load of people out of work.

    If an effort with primary personnel and hidden funding on a parallel to this “99% Declaration” had popped up to do an OWS Jobs Board, I’d be cheering. That would do some good.

    This thing is based on lies. It is bad-bad-bad.

    • BradB

      @vets74, ;) you commented,

      “….If an effort with primary personnel and hidden funding on a parallel to this “99% Declaration” had popped up to do an OWS Jobs Board, I’d be cheering. That would do some good….”

      Job creation is my primary concern and goal…. how-ever as long as the current (bought) congress is in office… we have little chance for expanding jobs in this country… so… how do we get “the money out of politics” and “the paid for politicians out of office” ?

      an Amendment ?… new laws ? … how ? … a Constitutional Convention truly might be the easiest way…
      do you have a better idea ?

  33. James Sanders

    I’d also ask this..given your own website on working groups and the SOLE reason given for group removal..located at http://www.nycga.net/groups/info/docs/working-groups-proposal..which I will quote:

    “The General Assembly is the only body which can determine that a working group can be disbanded due to violating the principles of solidarity.”

    Now..I’d like someone to explain to me..when this is your ONLY reason a group can be “disbanded” or not recognized..and the fact that the invite to create this working group here was extended to do so again..which implies we are indeed a working group..I’d like someone to explain to me how we can be “disbanded” or evicted from the website based upon this..and further..how ANYTHING we’ve done violates this solidarity clause when myself..Michael himself..and MANY of our group members support you in solidarity? Don’t come at me with the other requirements..we’re already working on that..I want to know about the specifics I’ve asked..so please..don’t muddy the waters with what I didn’t ask =)

    • Patrick Conway

      “Principles of Solidarity” is one of our founding documents, readily available under the resources link above. Michael is definitely in violation of at least points 1 & 4, and probably 2, 3 & 6 as well. If you don’t see that, you’re either on the payroll or you don’t know what you’re really involved in.

      In any case, you are not participating in anything related to OWS or the NYCGA, and you do not deserve to describe yourselves as such in any way. That being said, we wish you well with the 99%D’s future endeavors.

  34. James Sanders

    As for all those suggesting lies..impropriety..etc..wishing to bash and discredit..how many of you have bothered lurking and watching the group pages on facebook so you really have a clue..other than what you’ve read others say? How many of you have gone to the website and done the same..looking at the actual members instead of the ones posting with the sole intention of discrediting or bashing us? I’d suggest that if you haven’t..then all you’re doing is going on the here say of others and their interpretation..and if you’re your own leader..that’s being one how? My own personal opinion..if you’ve not taken the time to lurk and observer something..you don’t have a clue of what you’re talking about..and as such..although you have a right to your opinion/views/thoughts..what right do you have to discredit and bash something without real knowledge..first hand..of what’s going on? Are you really THAT arrogant? If the questions don’t apply to you and you’ve done that research..done that observation..then please carry on and and forget the questions. If they DO apply to you..it’s something you might want to think about.

    • edward

      You seem to start from a place where you think OWS should immediately roll over for you and this 99D. If you are so sure about it, run with it. Why are you absolutely intent on intruding on the nycga site, orchestrating a faux working group by remote, and insisting that ows get involved with 99D? Do your thing. And let OWS do its thing. Those things, by the way, are very different things.

      I lurked and watched. And when I spoke up on 99D pages, I was cut off. That’s quite telling.

      • Justin Stone-Diaz

        The only people who pay attention to this whole debate are the 99% Phantom group.
        They seem to be they’re own worst enemies.
        Been fun watching Michael make a mockery of his own ideas by his
        deceitful attempts at making an #OWS working group remotely.
        We tried to explain to him how to do things fairly, in person-
        But see where that got him, :(

        • Steve Scher

          Clarify:
          When you use the term phantom group, I believe you are refering to their presence here in the nyc ga.
          yes?

  35. Urbaned

    James – it’s me again – did you once call me your nemesis? Anyway, before people bother to read you facebook page or anything else, they might want to notice that when Mr. Pollak does not get his way, he resorts to cursing, threatening, and perhaps bribery, as revealed in this very stream.

    I don’t like the role that I am assuming here. But, I care deeply about OWS, and so will be the harpy. The 99D, Mr. Pollak, and you are wrong for OWS. Please don’t make us liable for your project any more.

  36. Patrick Conway

    As a former member of the ‘Michael Pollack and his lawyer-only friends working group’ (a.k.a. 99%D), my reason for leaving was the total lack of democracy present in Michael’s behavior. When several of us raised concerns about the many unilateral decisions being made on behalf of the group by Michael (deciding that he was the leader, forming a 501(c)4 corporation, raising funds, deciding the content of the declaration, deciding that we should be working on holding elections to be held in less than a year) his response was pure rage at the idea that the participants in the workgroup should vote. Instead, he banned a number of the participants for speaking their minds, and when the issues didn’t go away, he childishly shut down the Yahoo group we had been using, cutting the rest of us off. He then continued on with his existing plans on Facebook and elsewhere — with only those who happened to agree with his choices.

    For those reasons, he should be publicly cut loose by the NYCGA. This movement is about bringing more democracy into the American governmental system. Michael & company, whether they realize it or not, are about preserving the status quo in that regard, just as long as they can find a way to seize and control a big, juicy chunk of the power for themselves. This is my opinion, but I speak from the position of one who enjoyed a front-row seat all through September and the first half of October. My take: Michael is not a good guy; he is selfish, petty and *very* dictatorial.

    Anyway, taking the long view, I wish him and all his followers well. They certainly do not represent the spirit of OWS in any way, but I am sure that they have other redeeming qualities. And while we have not taken personally Michael’s frequent disparaging of the NYCGA, as a direct participant in both organizations, I can say that he’s better off without us, and we are better off without him. He does not actually like the reality of OWS, only the political opportunity that it has created for him. Continued masquerading as a part of it is purely financially-motivated on his part; the soul of 99%D is non-democratic and absolutely elitist.

    • Steve Scher

      the key here in imho is to recognize that the individual is not the group.
      having had some experince now with 99%D i see clearly the differnce.

      it is unfortunate if one person can singlehandely drive a wedge between 99%D and OWS, and I do mean he whose name I shall not speak.
      Does not play well with others.
      Not a team player.
      Knowingly and Willfully indulging in bullying tactics.
      I could go on, but I really am trying to bury the hatchet.
      He scares me.
      :(

  37. Matt Ready

    Hi Urbaned and James,

    I don’t think it is necessary to say James, the 99D, or Mr. Pollok, are unwelcome and “wrong” for OWS. Again, the beauty of Direct Democracy is that all are welcome. None of us have perfect personalities and resorting to cursing or tantrums once in a while…is not grounds to me for banishment. If this movement is to grow into the force it must become, we need to learn how to embrace all sorts of personalities- many of which will be very smart and ambitious.

    The 99D is a damn ambitious undertaking. I believe they have made a critical error by not bringing the plan through an occupy General Assembly and then through the movement. For this reason, if they do hold some sort of convention this year, it will be a blip on the radar.

    The issue regarding the 99D as an OWS Working Group is really this: “How much autonomous action and identity can a General Assembly Working Group have before it begins to conflict with its alignment with the GA?”
    As I think about this, maybe the answer is it depends- and the only body fit to judge is the GA.

    If a working group is doing something- working on some plan of action – and the GA considers this plan of action is significant enough that it will affect the entire group – then I think the GA can decide the working group is acting as a separate entity- unless the group is bringing major parts of its action before the GA. This may happen to the 99D and this might not be the last time it happens to a Working Group.

    If a working group becomes a separate entity, this is not necessarily a horrible fracturing. A separate entity can still be a powerful ally. For example labor unions or other organizations may at times be allies to OWS.

    To sum up, in my opinion:

    The 99D should not be identified as a OWS working group on the website because:
    All working groups should be 100% leaderless. The 99D has a core of leaders who are also the leaders of their non profit organization.
    The 99D is autonomously working on a plan of action that impacts the public perception of the entire OWS GA- without bringing its actions before the GA for consideration, feedback, and amendments. I believe the definition of proposals that must be brought to the GA are “anything that impacts the entire group”.

    That said, I do not believe the 99D and its core leaders are bad people. I just think they have missed an opportunity to work as a part of the OWS movement and instead have attempted to lead the movement.

    That said, I still feel there is some evolved form of the 99D plan that could be a great tool for OWS. Something along the lines of a USA national general assembly…..I just don’t quite see how it might all come together…a world where every neighborhood has a GA, every city, state, and nation….maybe I need to learn more about what they are doing in Spain…

    • edward

      That’s exactly, it seems to me, what’s behind this insistance to be part of OWS, Matt–they are attempting to lead the movement. And it seems that they believe they have the right to do so. It’s arrogant.

      • Justin Stone-Diaz

        How come none of you have profile pictures?
        We are not LEADING anything-
        You confuse NYCGA.NET for something it’s not.
        Where are you all based?
        You understand what NYCGA stands for right?
        New York City. Thought that might inform your rants VS. us who
        use this site as it was intended.
        Happy Holidays & Hope to see you at Liberty Square soon!

        • claire mooney

          @justin stone-diaz, just so you know, not all of us can afford to travel to nyc or take off work to protest consistently. I agree, however, that it is important to remember where this movement came from.
          I don’t have a profile picture because I don’t think that my looks are relevant.

          @edward and @matt ready, i agree completely.

          @patrick conway, I’m sorry that you’re so angry with the 99%D. I urge you to remember that this movement is one of inclusiveness. While I agree that @Michael Pollok has taken too much of a leadership role, I hope that you may try to suggest to him how he can change.

          Peace,
          Claire

  38. Robert Dinsmore

    What about the people who donated to OWS because they supported the basic idea that our political system is corrupt and that the wealth inequality in this country is fundamentally a bad thing AND expected some sort of action to come out of it.

    In my view some nut job anti-capitalists co-opted the movement and ran off with our money to do nothing but protest for some idealistic change that will never happen without action. Direct democracy does nothing but give a voice to these clueless people who think they can stop the economic inertia of billions of individuals through protests and inaction. OWS is not leaderless, it’s run by people who refuse to do anything. They lead and they think they speak for all the people of this country because there was some initial support. OWS will never speak for me or pretty much anyone in my social circles because the loudest voices to emerge are the ones of crackpots and senselessly combatitive assholes.

    Move forward for chrissakes. Do something. Make a change. At least the 99%D is trying to do that. So what if it’s not enough? It’s something far bigger than a frickin’ protest. None of these populist uprisings has ever led to anything. Do you want the same to be true for OWS? If 99%D were to succeed in ending private financing of campaigns would that be a bad thing because it didn’t create completely reform the government? Or would you all prefer that OWS just peter out into obscurity while the world continues along exactly as it has fro the last 30 years because no one was able to come up with a perfect and practical plan?

    BTW what has OWS done besides create awareness? This is important because will help give people the support needed to try to fix some of the problems, but that’s all that will ever come from it, especially with the people that think they own all the discontent that the so-called 99% have with the 1%.

    • Steve Scher

      Forgive my question, but is that what you observed during a GA at Zuccotti Park?

    • Patrick Conway

      Robert, you’re the one who needs to move on. If you dislike OWS and the way it operates so much, and feel that it has betrayed it’s donors (though I suspect you aren’t one of them), then just be on your way.

      Take Czar Michael I with you when you go, and good luck to you and everyone in 99%D with the new political party. No hard feelings, though: happy trails.

    • David Buccola

      If you don’t believe in direct democracy and support 99%D then go for it. But let’s not pretend that they have anything to do with OWS. All I see is that people are asking 99%D to be more transparent and honest about what they are doing. If people like you want to support that, great.

      Lastly, it seems hard to think that you could seriously say that all OWS has done is “create awareness.” Really? OWS has completely changed the dialogue happening in this country; it has unmasked the police state that has been lurking in the shadows for decades; and it’s forcing those in very powerful positions to take up positions, like challenging Citizens United, that they most certainly would not have done without OWS. More than that OWS gave people a shining example of a better world where we take care of each other, make decisions together, and build a better world together.

  39. Justin Stone-Diaz

    People do understand the NYC in NYCGA stands for New York City, right?

  40. Voter March

    If we truly believe in inclusiveness then that concept should apply to the 99% Declaration Group, as well. It seems like the greatest difference is that OWS believes in direct democracy, whereas the 99% Declaration Group accepts the current system of representative democracy. If we believe that some of the actions and principles of the 99% Declaration Group are inconsistent with OWS, then we simply state that the 99% Declaration Group does not represent OWS. If we feel that the 99% Declaration Group is not a true “Working Group,” then let us just rename it an “Affinity Group.” We need to stop the in-fighting and work together in the name of inclusiveness.

    • Patrick Conway

      Michael Pollock — who is the “working group” — does not accept the current system of representative democracy, except inasmuch as he can use it to enrich and empower himself. I was an early member of the group, and there was absolutely nothing democratic about anything that ever happened in it.

      99%D is just a big cult of personality, piggybacked on OWS’s look and feel. Regardless of the fancy graphics on the outside, Michael is as selfish, tyrannical and power-hungry as any other establishment political party boss can be.

      Many of us in OWS are working hard, continuously, on creating a statement of our vision and goals that at least most of us can agree with. The reason Michael’s could be done so much sooner than ours was that he chose not to listen to anyone other than himself, and he’s not listening still. The real statement will arrive when the people here have finished the long process of hashing it out in the most diverse political movement ever seen on earth. Check out the Vision & Goals WG forum for more details on that process.

  41. Binta Jannah

    Wow. I am so saddened by the many negative comments condemning and throwing aside the many good-hearted and concerned 99% who have linked themselves to the 99% Declaration.  I started by being fully enthralled and impassioned by the OWS movement.  I then was able to expand and help more by joining the 99%D.  It is a working group for the reason that we are working out the kinks so that our overall statement and actions represent those of the main OWS group.  

    I do not understand why you all who say you are voices of the OWS movement make it so hard for citizens to help and support the overall cause.  I feel judged before you even know me.  

    I feel like you have not even written one posting reaching out or asking us our personal feelings and beliefs and goals for the OWS movement.

    please don’t let the small details divide us….we will work out the wording, formatting, compliances, etc…  But spewing these words of negativity and disowning of a group is cutting off your OWS movement from hundreds and thousands following 99%D, not Michael…..we follow our hearts and the work…..where we are, needed we go….we support all and we wish you could support us as people and just open your mind to a roundtable meeting of the minds to make this successful for all the 99%! many blessings.

  42. Urbaned

    The 99% Declaration Group is now a private group on this website. That is a great compromise for all involved. Mr. Pollak can invite whoever he would like to work with on his Declaration from facebook, his private website, and all of the other areas he is involved in. Those people can use this wordpress site to develop their Declaration.

    I would request that due to this gracious and intelligent action by the OWS administrators, that Mr. Pollak refrain from manipulating OWS members and spewing hateful language, threats, and curses on the rest of the website.

  43. the99declaration

    Please, Urbaned you have been part of an orchestrated attempt to silence us from DAY ONE. I am only grateful that people like you and Steve Scher will no longer be able to spam us and spread lies in our group. Spin your web lies elsewhere. The National General Assembly is now a reality, the deposit has been placed and all may participate as a Delegate or supporter or not. Everyone has the same choice whether they can travel to a GA meeting or not. The direct democracy model is not ready to be applied on a large scale yet we need change NOW. This is one solution.

  44. Urbaned

    And there are other aspects of OWS that I have supported, that seem to be more in line with its ideology. Good luck with the convention and marketing it elsewhere.

  45. dana

    I do not pretend to be up to date on all the GA activities or the 99% declaration activities but it seems to me that 2 fundamentally different models of change cannot coexist together. OWS represents a direct democracy model/ 99% declaration represents representative democracy. I think that the 99% declaration people should start their own organization. For the simple fact that while it may share in many of the same goals as Occupy it differs on the premise that OWS stands on, direct democracy. OWS does not seek to go backwards to the days of the american revolution, we have representative democracy and now its time to usher in a new model. I don’t hate or dislike the 99% declaration people (I’ve never met them) I just don’t believe they jive with the spirit of the movement and that if they seek to obtain funds they should not do it under the guise of OWS.

  46. john pianka

    99% has people come together in general assembly online and proposals are put up for vote for the issues of the group people participate in that poll and vote and when the vote is done if there is a 85% approval then it is adopted by the group i fail to understand how that is not direct democracy seems to me to have more participation by people then any General assembly that any occupy movement has had to vote for their issues please define direct democracy for me and tell me how any occupy general assembly can claim they are using direct democracy when deciding issues like how you are going to spend your money please tell me how many people is required for ows ga to decide how to spend the vast fortune you are collecting?