1/5: Spokes Council Ethics

Posted by & filed under Assemblies, Past Proposals.

Strong Women Rules Working Group proposes questions about Spokes Council ethics.

64 Responses to “1/5: Spokes Council Ethics”

    • vets74

      LOL ! Reading through this page is somewhere in the class with a good SNL skit.

      The complaints are quite mad. But since OWS got started decrying massive theft by Wall Street, you gotta know the standard Rovian tactics are going to come into play.
      — OWS is more corrupt than Wall Street
      — Everybody does it
      — The lefties are the thieves
      — Prosecute ’em.

      What a scream: “$350,000 falling between the cracks with media and live streaming.” Them lefties can’t do shit, eh.

    • Julia Silvestri

      I found these comments kind of sad. From all sides of the argument, do we really need to be so unkind?

      • Dallas

        Well, in as kind a fashion as I can muster let me rephrase:

        A) What’s wrong with the internet, Trish?

        B) It does seem like SWR and Nan in particular think we’re totally incapable of managing our own finances (other than Nan and the rest of the WG). I can see why people might be less than civil in response. Maybe fewer raised voices and less hyperbole would help smooth things over? Just a thought.

        • Sean McKeown

          For the accounting question, that proposal might have gone better if her co-sponsor wasn’t “Hey, wasn’t that guy kicked out of the Accounting working group for possibly trying to embezzle money?”

  1. Sam Redman

    Perhaps she will have questions about being banned (and physically barred from entry by NYPD) from participation at last evening’s Spokes Council. The ban included Nan, Sage and Trish, plus two others.

    • NYCGA Council

      LET IT BE KNOWN: The New York City Police Department (NYPD) can be called to OWS meeting.

      • Lopi

        Let it be Known that the NYPD is already present at OWS meetings.

        • Shawn Carrié

          Let it also be known that NYPD can sign up for an account on nycga.net

          • NYCGA Council

            Until Safer Spaces (Working Group) completes the OWS Community Agreement, keep 911 on speed dial. (Especially) where women are sleeping.

          • Dallas

            Thank you @shawn and @lopi ! We DO NOT prohibit the police from involvement in OWS. Although I think I speak for everyone who is not an undercover cop when I I say that we do much prefer that you be open about your status as an LEO is you are going to get involved.

          • Lopi

            let it be known that un-uniformed police will call 911 and the IRS and the DOB and on and on

    • Strong Women Rules Working Group: Organizations, Groups and Members

      Well, Let’s called them heck lets call the IRS on Finance/Account make it way much easier for the movement.

      • Dallas

        You know, if I didn’t know better I’d say someone is threatening us. How do we feel about being threatened, OWS?

          • Urbaned

            Bullies should go to NVC Training-Nonviolent Communication/Compassionate Communication meetings and learn how to work with others.

          • Dr. T Rojas

            We would not have to deal with bullies I we put in place simple and clear “norms” (or rules) of behavior:
            please pay attention to Attitudes* that should be avoided within our movement, at assemblies and work Groups

            *Because they reflect “leaderism” (mis-Leadership or misguided EGO)

            In all groups in a greater or lesser extent, the phenomenon of
            “leaderism” takes place. Recognizing, accepting and addressing it with
            maturity is the first step to start a assembly process.

            Here are some of the attitudes that denote the presence of leadership
            exercised in an irresponsible and immature way (let us call it E.G.O.
            as in Energy Going nOwhere):

            Hoarding the scene: talking for too long and too high, sometimes with
            excessive hand and body gestures.

            Expelling a solution for all problems: constantly giving solutions and
            answers to all questions arising before others have had the
            opportunity to contribute.

            Lecturing, assuming our own opinions are the last word in the
            discussion, often
            aggravated by the body posture and “that tone of voice”.

            Picky comments: pointing out every little defect in statements made by
            others and highlighting the exception to every generality.

            Being repetitive on purpose: repeating what the other just said in a
            completely clear and worsen it by using an aggressive attitude towards
            a person or the assembly.

            Sucking up all the spotlight: using all kinds of drama to be the
            center of attention.

            Pretending to be superior/better/more experienced: “I used to think
            so too, but now ….” “How can you say that …”

            Not listening to others or even oneself: formulating responses right
            after the first sentences from any speech, without hearing anything
            else. Intervene quickly on the first break.

            Inflexibility: hamper the stablished and sgreed decision-making proccess by claiming not to agree even on the smallest details.

            Avoiding to show feelings, intellectualizing and taking refuge in
            passivity or by making jokes when it’s time to express feelings. Even
            mocking others feelings

            Condescension and paternalism: “Does any one have something to add?”
            “that’s No Way things should be done” “I’ll explain to you how it

            Try to be omni-present/ubiquitous: by offering myself to take over many
            tasks and functions, before others even have had the opportunity to

          • Dallas

            @tndignadx in my rave scene days we used to define that as D.A.V.E., which is the opposite of P.L.U.R..

            Disrespect Attitude Violence Ego


            Peace Love Unity Respect

    • Strong Women Rules Working Group: Organizations, Groups and Members

      Yoni you seriously have some personal issued….You really are trying way to hard to be popular you *** kisser… Personally I do not like you.

      • stephan geras

        please reserve your invective for face-to-face contact. This is not the forum for that. In fact, neither is Spokes or GA.

    • Strong Women Rules Working Group: Organizations, Groups and Members

      What about Chris?… Chris is a wonderful person, way better than most of you jokers inside this movement.

      • Frances MA

        I never said he wasn’t wonderful. I just asked if this is who the poster was referring to. Chill, and stop looking for any excuse to attack people please.

    • Lopi

      Chris is a wonderful person who sometimes shouts loudly at GA when he is upset.

  2. NYCGA Council

    Let’s stay focus on the $350.000 (bet. the cracks) the issues of ethics, transparency, accountability,and believability.

    Let’s stay focus on the aspirations of the movement.

    And, realize how that space (church) was manipulated to further the needs of those who cannot address issues of accountability.

    Peace & Manipulation

    • Sean McKeown

      There is so far no evidence to suggest this $350,000 discrepancy exists anywhere but in your own imagination, as a repetetive talking point.

    • quinn

      There is also no evidence that either Strong Women Rules or NYCGA Council are actual working groups.

      • Sean McKeown

        Not true. Accounting pays receipts for Strong Women Rule, thus they are presumably tracked as a legitimate working group. Whether that will continue with the five person / weekly meeting / minutes requirement remains to be seen, however, as Nan is the only individual of her WG I have ever seen at Spokes Council and I have never seen a meeting time posted.

        • sumumba

          yes they ARE a ‘working group’ -for NOW…BUT it’s ironic that they also owe money/recieptfs yet are the MAIN ones attempting to ‘audit’ /dissolve -finance..smdh

        • Sam Redman

          What do those expenses, which are substantiated by receipts, entail? And how much of the allotted daily $100 is being claimed? Have they shown any project results which would warrant any reimbursement at all? Can those amounts and itemization be made public?

        • Yoni Miller

          there’s also the many “private members” and I am open to possibility that it has more than one member, but it certainly is clear that it’s not transparent and therefore shouldn’t be receiving funding until it can change. Regardless, I commend them for meeting or whatever good work Nan possibly does.

          NYCGA Council is Trish’s statement that corporations are people, and that she is one of them.

        • quinn

          @smckeown, OK, gotcha, there is circumstantial evidence that Strong Women Rules may be considered a working group, but there is no direct evidence that they actually function as a working group. But I guess it will all come out on/after January 20.

        • Dallas

          I will personally vouch that @yoni2b is real, as am I, as are you *Trish*.

          NYCGA Council…. maybe not so real. Convince me.

          • Sean McKeown

            NYCGA Council is an attempt to prove that corporations are people, and Trish is one of them.

  3. Voter March

    It is unfortunate that while the General Assembly and Spokes Council are being bogged down with petty matters, that attention is being drawn away from important national issues.

    Yesterday, President Obama signed the National Defense Authorizatioin Act (“NDAA”).
    See President Obama Signs Indefinite Detention Into Law, ACLU Blog, 12/31/2011
    @ http://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/NDAA

    • Yoni Miller

      See you at NDAA rally today? And I think because we haven’t focused at all on these “petty” thorny and disruptive matters, the GA’s and SC’s haven’t been able to function as effectively. Once we establish proper forums for this, we;ll be able to get more shit done.

    • Urbaned

      Yeah. In 3 months, OWS convinced me to vote for Moshe for President and 99%D for Congress. Sorry for the sarcasm.

      • reginahny

        you made me laugh, and that’s a good thing. A bit of snark can be good for the soul, I understand and do it myself from time to time… 😉

  4. Sam Redman

    This Spokes Council Ethics proposal has potential. Perhaps, the originator of this proposal could add (or someone else as a Friendly Amendment) the following to become essentials of Spokes Council ethics.

    – No one will insult fellow members, for example, using expressions such as, “You’ll burn in hell,” or “I personally hate you.”
    – No one will disrespect a church SC host by using profanity, after the pastor has specifically requested that such not be done to respect the space,
    – No one will repeatedly interrupt speakers who are properly on stack (or others speaking appropriately as part of the process).
    – No one will threaten violence or bodily harm against another member.
    – No one will use race or gender as a judgmental factor to assert their own authority over other people.

    – Any person guilty of any of these offenses will be banned from future Spokes Council gatherings.

    I’m sure the proposal author will have no objection to including these essentials as part of the Spokes Council code of ethics.

      • Sam Redman

        Thanks Sean… I was thinking that perhaps the proposer might recognize some of those disruptive tactics as those being used at some of the Spokes Councils she’s attended and realizes how destructive to the movement such behavior can be.

        • Sean McKeown

          It is quite possible she is already aware of just how destructive to the movement such behaviors can be.

          • Urbaned

            We all learn in different ways. OWS is bigger than many of us realize. It certainly has stretched my mind and behavior (I am learning to listen more)!

    • Yoni Miller

      Don’t be a spoiler, these proposals are hilarious as fuck!! We need these to lighten the mood in the GA, and enjoy thus folly. She’s a mildly paid comedian, only asking for 250K home, and a few other expenditures, with a very high entertainment and non disposable voice, <3 keep da wuv comin' for da lulz!!!

      I wanna nominate her as a spy and liaison for the 1% and the Tea Party, she'll run the Think Tanks combining Palin, Rove, O'Donnel, Paul and many other intelligent and vibrant leaders of our community.

      • Dallas

        I personally would welcome Ron Paul to Think Tank….. but i digress.

        • Yoni Miller

          Yeah i realize my post insulted Paul by putting Nan on an equal platform to him. I disagree with him, as I’m sure you do, but he’s intelligent and would be an amazing participant or speaker of an OWS event or think tank.

  5. Justin Strekal

    Why is it that nan can threaten people, myself twice and many others and yet so few people still want to touch the issue of banning her from OWS events? It is one thing to disagree or get into an argument but this is getting out of hand that we tolerate this behavior as a community. If we were a tribe we would have exiled her by now

    • liza

      you dont speak for me –and i’ve been rather clear on where i stand with particularly this person.

      my issue has always been that it’s easy to deal with the loud ones while the quiet ones undermine, sabotage, steal and cheat because they happen to look like you and not me.

      if we are going to deal effectively with any people who undermine, sabotage, steal and cheat within OWS we better come up with guidelines that apply to both the loud and quiet ones as well.

      case in point: go check the latest minutes of the Volunteer working group.

  6. liza

    where is the proposal?

    this is an example of how we could maybe put proposals into a “holding pattern”.

    1) so you have an “in progress” status that offers no date because people who post their “in progress” notes here are opening the proposal for writing support from the online community. if they get support offline, then that’ll just go to whatever they eventually mark for acceptance as a “draft”

    2) once there’s an actual “draft”, then the proposers can get a date for presenting to GA or spoke. this of course with the knowledge, obvs, that friendly amendments if taken would be added to the draft and marked as “complete” if passed.

    3) to mark as “completed & approved”, the final edit has to include the FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS that were accepted when it was approved by the GA or spokes.

    i’d love to hear your comments on this.

    • reginahny

      Thanks liza for these really fair questions and an open-ended opportunity for the proposer to reply. All these disorganized and incomplete proposals are muddying the waters and I appreciate your calm response. I’ve been less than kind and supportive as the one-liner proposals and one-member groups have mushroomed — but I realize your approach has more potential. Thank you!